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Top 10 RPGs

Psycho Penguin

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I ranked all the PS2 RPGs I've played enough of.

1. Shadow Hearts Covenant
2. Shadow Hearts
3. Final Fantasy X
4. Xenosaga Episode 1
5. Star Ocean 3
6. Mana Khemia
7. Dragon Quest 8
8. Tales of the Abyss
9. Grandia II
10. Atelier Iris 3
11. Wild ARMs 3
12. Lord of the Rings: The Third Age
13. Wild ARMs 4
14. Arc the Lad: Twilight of the Spirits
15. Disgaea
16. Legaia 2
17. Growlanser 2
18. Grandia 3
19. Wild ARMs 5
20. Tales of Legendia
21. Final Fantasy X-2
22. Shadow Hearts: From the New World
23. Final Fantasy 12
24. Xenosaga Episode 2
 

Psycho Penguin

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Would you like me to explain why they're so low, or why FF X-2 is ahead of FF12, or what?

Basically FF X-2 has a terrible story, awful music in points, and good gameplay in some respects. FF12 fails at life, I just can't stand the battle system and how the whole game seems like one big MMO. I reviewed FF X-2 on gamefaqs
 

Smues

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Psycho Penguin said:
Would you like me to explain why they're so low, or why FF X-2 is ahead of FF12, or what?

Basically FF X-2 has a terrible story, awful music in points, and good gameplay in some respects. FF12 fails at life, I just can't stand the battle system and how the whole game seems like one big MMO. I reviewed FF X-2 on gamefaqs

How you can think FF12 is worse than FF X-2. Yes I can't really see how anyone would call FF12 a bad game, but to each his own. But to actually rank it worse than FF X-2 is the big puzzler. Ranking anything worse than FF X-2 is a puzzler, but I haven't played the other games you ranked worse.

Also, my pre-emptive retort to whatever rationale you have:
Final Fantasy X-2 Real Emotion
 

Rendclaw

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Oh my god... that scene in Melody of Elemia made me squirm, and not in a good way... that cutscene alone should have given the game a Mature rating, jesus....

Flik: I was thinking something along the lines of Legaia 2, only better... Shenmue had the unfortunate ridiculousness of being tied into the console's clock to where you had to do certain things at a certain time. Talk about a time sink... I remember a friend of my mine in Florida because really obsessed with it, to where he set his alarm according to what he had to do in the game. Pathetic.
 

Psycho Penguin

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Final Fantasy X-2 has a traditional, fast paced battle system that kind of doubles as a job system due to the dress spheres. I like traditional RPGs better than MMOs by default. FF12 did nothing to convince me it was anything more than a boring game with an awful battle system. FF X-2 at least was fun in battles.
 

Conspiracy_Victim

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Black Lushus said:
I sorta liked the .hack series on the PS2...never finished the last disc though...

Yeah the .hack series was fun, but I actually liked the more cel shaded steampunk look of G.U. better. Plus I like Haseo to Kite. I guess I prefer assholes to whiners. And, of course, G.U. has Pi. Pretty much trumps anything in .hack.
 

Kageho

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Rendclaw said:
Oh my god... that scene in Melody of Elemia made me squirm, and not in a good way... that cutscene alone should have given the game a Mature rating, jesus....

Flik: I was thinking something along the lines of Legaia 2, only better... Shenmue had the unfortunate ridiculousness of being tied into the console's clock to where you had to do certain things at a certain time. Talk about a time sink... I remember a friend of my mine in Florida because really obsessed with it, to where he set his alarm according to what he had to do in the game. Pathetic.

Rendclaw, as long as it doesn't actually show what happens, it gets by as a T. Or so I've read from ESRB. Also, its not the worst thing that happened in Melody of Elemia. There were more cringe inducing ones.

Also, I totally forgot about Legaia 2's battle system. That would be a good concept to fiddle with and try to build a system to it.
 

AndrewTS

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Kageho said:
Rendclaw, as long as it doesn't actually show what happens, it gets by as a T. Or so I've read from ESRB.

Plus, Xenosaga has it beat, and it isn't even remotely funny.
 

ericmm

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Ugh, say it ain't so.

I never made it very far in Xenosaga, please tell me it doesn't involve Moe or chaos.....
 

AndrewTS

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ericmm said:
Ugh, say it ain't so.

I never made it very far in Xenosaga, please tell me it doesn't involve Moe or chaos.....

Strictly speaking, "moe" is very broad...

At any rate, I'll show you:
Encountering Albedo Uncut (in English)

EDIT: timestamp isn't working, so skip to about 1:15. Oh, and she's an android, FWIW.

(It's edited in the US version with all the sound there, but there are several scenes, that if not edited, would definitely have gotten it an M here, at least.)
 

Molotov The Bear

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If your an idiot and take it completely out of the context of the story like you have, then sure.
 

AndrewTS

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Anyone else think that linking to a youtube video (one I didn't make or upload btw) that shows the entire cutscene is out of context? It's not like anyone here is stupid enough to actually think there's loli robo cooch diddling there, but it's obviously deliberately unsettling.

Also, I'm sure some of you know, but The Spoony One of thespoonyexperiment.com finished his rant/review of Final Fantasy VIII ("Now THIS is where it gets stupid."). He skips around the post-disc 1 stuff, but notes stuff like the orphanage plot point (because you know it's a great, epic RPG when it borrows plot points from Santa with Muscles). Oh, and it's got parts that are NSFW.
 

ericmm

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I suppose I meant "MOMO" and not "Moe" or M.O.E. or whatev that whole thing is called.

*Anyways* can we get back to Top 10 RPGs, and not Bottom 10?
 

Rendclaw

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I find myself playing BGDA2 and C:RTA over and over... none of the modern day RPGs even raise an eyebrow for me anymore, though I have been looking....
 
M

metr0man

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Smues said:
6. Final Fantasy VIII - No fuck the haters on this one, as I COMPLETELY understand the hate. But those things people hate don't bug me. Had i picked up this game at other times in my life I probably wouldn't like it near as much. But I played it at just the right time and I related to Squall and all his emo bullshit and all that. Plus it's got a great soundtrack.

While I wouldn't put it on any top 10 list, I'm glad you put this here. I feel this is a very underrated and misunderstood game - partially Square's own fault the storytelling is clumsy at spots. The 2nd time I played through this years ago I started picking up all sorts of story points that went whoosh over my head the first time (and judging from many online discussions, same with many others). There was all sorts of cool Terminator-esque time traveling paradoxes in the end.

I also enjoyed the soundtrack. Another feature that was fantastic but nobody ever talks about... the random monsters SCALED WITH YOUR LEVEL! Come back at a high level to the first part of the game, and the monsters are not pushovers. There were a couple of other features that people shook their heads at the time, but have now found their way into many different RPG games since.

Also, the school setting was interesting and different. Looking back, there is a major 'futuristic Hogwarts' vibe to the whole thing, with a bit more adult edge of course. Squall and Seifer is also really reminiscent of Harry Potter and Draco Malfoy. There are other analogs too in characters, but also just the vibe. I can't help but feel an RPG set in the Harry Potter world (rather than one specifically based off a movie or book), would be kind of like this game.

Also that first disc mission where you have to assassinate that evil witch is one of the best game/cinematic set-pieces i've ever seen in an RPG. Also the battle of the 'Gardens' is phenomenal.
 

El Psycho Diablo

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Keep in mind that I'd probably have more JPRGs on the list, but I tend to wind up spending hours on them, going off to something else, then get reluctant to go back because I have no idea what the hell I was doing.

1) Baldur's Gate 2:
IMO, the best D&D game ever made. Probably the best example of western developed RPGs to date. Even with your character's background and story set for you, they still managed to give you a great deal of customization as to how you made your character and played the game. A lot of joinable NPCs with their own personalities, conflicts, and storylines. It had amazing graphics for the time, and ones that still don't look bad even today.

2) Fallout 2:
If BG2 is Bioware's best, then Fallout 2 is Black Isle Studios' best. How you play the entire game is up to you - combat, charisma, science, and even pacifism are all viable options. Your stats affect the game, and not just in combat - like I pointed out elsewhere, a low Intelligence character will have serious problems completing the game. It's an open world game at it's best, and has well written dialogue to boot. My only gripe is that they work in a little too many pop culture references - though they're all random encounters, and one area in particular. New Reno is a huge, quest-laden area of the game, and while I feel it's very well done..it just doesn't feel very Fallout-y.

3) Planescape: Torment:
Another great BIS game. It's another D&D license game, but it's about as far from Baldur's Gate as you can go. It ditches the traditional style fantasy setting for something entirely different, and while combat is an option, the game is very story/dialog driven. You can get through most of the encounters or quests by dialog alone, and it avoids the "good choice, neutral choice, bad choice" trap that so many games with a morality system fall into.

4 & 5) Fallout 1, Baldur's Gate 1: Take the opinion from the above games, and reduce them just a bit. BG1 is playable on the BG2 engine, which fixes the gameplay issues the original release of BG1 had.

6) The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (and expansions): I love Oblivion, with some of the refinements it provides, but it can't really beat it's predecessor. A fantasy game with an unusual setting, plenty of factions, open world gameplay style, any number of ways to play, and a well written story. When you consider the thousands of mods available, the game is practically endless.

7) Darklands.
An old (1992) game set in the Holy Roman Empire during the 15th century. Extensive character creation, a lot of locations to visit, a location-based infamy system, an open world, character aging, real-time combat, and a ton of other things. A little buggy, but how many games of this scope aren't?

8] Mass Effect
I don't think it's quite the best thing Bioware has done, but a good Bioware game is better than a lot of other developer's "great" games. It's a mishmash of Knights of the Old Republic and Star Control II, and it really works.

9) Knights of the Old Republic
Star Wars + RPG done right. I think the second game is better gameplay wise, but Lucasarts being dicks about it and having Obsidian release the game incomplete really, really hurt it.

10) Grandia 2
Probably my favorite JRPG, and one of the few I've actually finished. I haven't played it in years, but I still love the soundtrack.

Honorable mentions to Oblivion, Fallout 3, and Jade Empire.
 

Psycho Penguin

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I also enjoyed the soundtrack. Another feature that was fantastic but nobody ever talks about... the random monsters SCALED WITH YOUR LEVEL! Come back at a high level to the first part of the game, and the monsters are not pushovers. There were a couple of other features that people shook their heads at the time, but have now found their way into many different RPG games since.

1) This didn't make battles any harder. One, they scaled to Squall's level. Two, junctions made battles easy.

2) What features made their way into 'many different RPG games since'? Drawing magic? No. Junctions? No. Scaling enemy levels was done before and hasn't really been done since. A boring ass opening and lame plot twist? Ok maybe. I guess card games.. maybe.
 

Rendclaw

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Man, I forgot about Jade Empire... I really should get back into that game.. it was beautiful and the closest to my personal concept of what a martial arts based RPG should be.

Lufia II did have scaling enemies, even though if it was based on the next region you went to. That was on the things I hated about some of the 16 bit RPGs. They went out of their way to make the game linear even if you could roam around.
 

El Psycho Diablo

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Rendclaw said:
Man, I forgot about Jade Empire... I really should get back into that game.. it was beautiful and the closest to my personal concept of what a martial arts based RPG should be.

I got through playing it again recently, and it still looks good.

Where's my sequel to THAT, Bioware?
 

ericmm

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Jade Empire was BORING.

Every martial art was basically the same, and you only had three moves!

Combat got old.
 

special k

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1: Final Fantasy VI
Great story, tons of secrets, good characters (sure there's a few filler characters, but about 8 are well fleshed-out) and the BEST SOUNDTRACK EVER! A hell of a great villain to boot.

2: Chrono Trigger
This whole game plays like a labor of love, and the swan song of 2D RPGs. The story is great. The characters are simple, but quite lovable, the time traveling opens lots of fun and unique sidequests. Beautiful 2D graphics and a very good soundtrack.

3: Suikoden II
One of the best stories ever, and probably Two of the top 5 RPG villains (along with Kefka, Ghalleon and Sephiroth) in Luca and Jowy Blight. Lots of secrets and sidequests and a short, concise playthrough. Lots of memorable characters, and an undeniably epic feel, despite substandard 2D graphics. Good music too!

4: Final Fantasy VII
Absolutely awe-inspiring when it came out. The game is dated now, but it still feels like just an immense, huge game. Good characters, very good villain, and a very well-presented plot (in terms pacing). Though the graphics may be dated, the art and aesthetic of the game are not. Many people hate this game for what it started, but there were only two egregiously long cut scenes in the game, and they were absolutely necessary.

5: Persona 4
What a game. The persona series has always excelled at great atmosphere and characters, but this made it actually accessible. (I know Persona 3 really did that, but I haven't played it. Need to!) Wonderful, wonderful characters, with great voice actors backing them up. Good plot. Ok graphics with a nice aesthetic. Very creative settings. The music is subpar. Manages to keep the repetitive gameplay fun to the end, by breaking up the action a lot. A great swan song for PS2 RPGs.

6: Valkyrie Profile
I loved the fast and fun gameplay, tragic storyline, superb 2D graphics and Norse aesthetic. A great challenge, too! Man, I wish VP2:Silmeria had been better.

7: Final Fantasy IV
Ah, this and old Mega Man games hold the greatest nostalgia for me. The first RPG I played with a decent plot. Simple, but very well done gameplay. I'm playing the DS remake now, which should give you some idea of this game's staying power. And Kain rules.

8: Lufia 2
Great puzzles, good fighting system and a pretty decent plot! A hard game to put down.

9: Final Fantasy XII
Proving you can't win them all, Square gave us a very straightforward story with scads and scads of EXCELLENT fast gameplay, and they COMPLETELY redid the battle system! And people whined. This game was just plain fun, and I uncovered every nook and cranny of it just because I was having such a good time. I sunk 90 hours into this game, and it went by like a flash. FINALLY we have some good fucking voice acting after the mess of VAs that were Final Fantasy X and X-2. Needed much better gameplay balance, as the main story was a cinch if you got through even half of the optional hunts.

10: Lunar: Eternal Blue Perfect
Crude graphics, very conventional gameplay that frankly wears out its welcome by the end. This one is here strictly for having a fantastic plot, and wonderful, loveable characters. I love the epilogue, where you spend 10+ hours after the main game is through gathering up your old friends to save a lost teammate. It's a magical denouement. Features one of the best villains ever.

JUST missing the list: Lunar: Silver Star perfect, Suikoden, Final Fantasy X, Shadowrun (SNES)
As an added note, I like and appreciate the Dragon Quest series, but I refuse to level-grind for 50 hours anymore, sorry.


This list is Console RPGs of course. If I did a PC RPG list, it would look a lot like El Psycho Diablo's, with Icewind Dale and Anachronox.
 

Kageho

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You know... I'm really surprised with the Lufia II love. ^_^;;; didn't think it was that popular.
 
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