UK voting on whether to remain in EU on June 23

[Mickey Massuco]

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-35621079

P. big deal, these polls make it seem like the 'leave' camp has gained some steam in recent times.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/eureferendum/11617702/poll.html

Seems around the time of the migrants and their issues in January, the 'leave' camp experienced a spike. We don't have many active local UK posters anymore, feel free to give your thoughts.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

Most party leaders said they want to stay in the EU, but Boris Johnson said he thinks the UK should leave. That's probably gonna piss off a lot of people.

 

[909]

It's funny to me that Scotland and Wales will very likely bring the votes to keep the UK in the EU.

The debate over there is largely regarding immigration, there are a lot of people who think it's a problem that Bulgarians, Poles, Hungarians, etc are able to take British jobs in non-skilled fields. There's also an issue where Britain is at a trade deficit with the EU, putting in more than they get. National sovereignty is also an issue.

I'm interested to see the ramifications of this, because if they do vote to leave odds are that both the EU and UK would fall apart. If I was living there I'd vote to stay in the EU simply based on the fact that their conservative government shouldn't be given more power than they already have.

 

[Jingus]

The debate over there is largely regarding immigration, there are a lot of people who think it's a problem that Bulgarians, Poles, Hungarians, etc are able to take British jobs in non-skilled fields.

Has there ever been a nation which genuinely was ruined and destroyed by an influx of immigrants? And I don't mean like the barbarians sacking Rome, I mean "they came here peacefully, took all our jobs, and the country fell to shit because of it". I can't think of a single historical example, yet people have been shrieking that this is going to happen for at least the past two centuries.

 

[909]

The debate over there is largely regarding immigration, there are a lot of people who think it's a problem that Bulgarians, Poles, Hungarians, etc are able to take British jobs in non-skilled fields.

Has there ever been a nation which genuinely was ruined and destroyed by an influx of immigrants?

I was going to say every nation that white people showed up in but then I read the rest of your post.

You could argue that immigration had an extremely negative impact on Greece because migrants then went on to take a much larger share of wages (in comparison to population) paid out by Greek businesses, then sent the money out of the country, but they'd have went bust anyway because nobody pays their taxes there.

I do think the idea that someone can get a job in a country and send money out of the country to their home may be harmful to a country because it isn't being reinvested in goods and services, but I don't know the actual impact, especially as pertains to a small economy like the Greek one.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-leave-campaign-10-point-lead-remain-boris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

How legit is this poll? We have no English posters to give us the word on the ground.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

Ganja international is MIA :'(

 

[still fly]

Don't see where Britain benefits from leaving the EU. The country isn't exactly an economic power.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

agreed they'll get hurt by leaving. It seems like the 'leave' vote is being buoyed by the right wing nationalist fervor that seems to be sweeping across Europe.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

I think it will have a devestating effect on their economy.

 

[KOAB]

sweet

 

[DCH]

Don't see where Britain benefits from leaving the EU. The country isn't exactly an economic power.

It's only the fifth largest economy in the world and the largest economy in the EU after Germany. Not an economic power at all.

 

[rollie]

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-poll-brexit-leave-campaign-10-point-lead-remain-boris-johnson-nigel-farage-david-a7075131.html

How legit is this poll? We have no English posters to give us the word on the ground.

Everyone is starting to feel leaving is looking very likely, which is thoroughly depressing. Whilst there are flaws to the EU system there are so many benefits to our general life from extra regulations for health and saftey (our government is very big on bills allowing companies to make lots of money at the expense of others) through to money for non corporate driven scientific research in universities. Then you factor in all the potential issues caused by trade deals going out the window, a lot of jobs are likely to be lost and someone predicted it might end up costing most households about 3k a year (on average). It feels like the whole Exit campaign has been based on a fear of immigrants in certain sectors of society which is both not accurate (immigration rates are having a tiny impact on the health service, jobs, benefits) and is also just stirring a pot of hate.

This week started out funny as one of the key anti-EU politicians took out a boat on the Thames to make his point (although this http://www.greenpeace.org.uk/media/press-releases/brexit-flotilla%E2%80%99s-star-trawler-was-involved-%C2%A363m-fishing-fraud-20160615) and was then confronted by a flotilla of pro-EU boats lead by Bob Geldoff. They all shouted at each other from their boats.
Then one of the MPs who was on the pro-EU boats was shot yesterday by a gunman shouting "Britain First". Whilst the work of a mentally disturbed person one can't help but think that it's at least in part caused by all this anger and hate that the anti-EU politicians have riled up for their benefit.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

To give a sense of the turnout’s potential significance, a participation rate of 64% is expected to yield a 53% overall vote in favor of remain with 47% voting to leave; a turnout of just 60% could deliver a 51% vote in favor of Brexit with 49% voting to remain!

never woulda guessed 'leave' had such a strong chance, hopefully young people get out and vote.

 

[Sabre]

Norn Ireland here.

The general consensus is the vote is going to be near a 50/50 split. I will be voting tomorrow and honestly still have no idea what way to go. The arguments for both sides is strong.

The main issue we have here is the impending doom it may result with the history of a "divided ireland" coming to the fore front again. Borders will have to go back up and that will make everything feel 1980s again which may cause some serious issues with some peoples minds ala the troubles.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

To give a sense of the turnout’s potential significance, a participation rate of 64% is expected to yield a 53% overall vote in favor of remain with 47% voting to leave; a turnout of just 60% could deliver a 51% vote in favor of Brexit with 49% voting to remain!

never woulda guessed 'leave' had such a strong chance, hopefully young people get out and vote.

I think the funny thing is that it's mirroring Scotland's vote to leave the UK from not long ago, only the motivation for the "leave" side was primarily economic.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

 

[Mickey Massuco]

in my heart of hearts I really didn't think they'd actually leave but google and early twitter results are saying Brexit is the result WISH I COULD CHAT ABOUT IT

 

[Mickey Massuco]

fastFT Verified account ‏@fastFT 5m5 minutes ago

#GBP slumps 9.5% to its lowest point since 1985 as polls show voters leaning toward #Brexit

Markets already responding.

 

[909]

Told you guys Europe was swinging way back to the right. This and the refugee crisis is going to be the end of the whole EU.

 

[still fly]

UK is going to tank hard. Sad times for our cousins across the pond.

If the the EU collapses, I could see fascism become more popular in Europe.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

same, Smitty mentioned it earlier as well but for about a year now a lot of EU states have been on that path to right wing nationalism.

 

[909]

I don't know how right wing it actually is. Many of the nationalists believe in a wide social net, and lots of the disaffected who voted to leave are former Labour voters. They don't think it should be to pay for non-citizens and they don't think the EU should be allowed to force countries to take a set quota of refugees. That's what all this is about.

It also doesn't hurt that lots of the refugees who went to their new countries did exactly what the right wing fear mongers said they were going to do. Anyway, the EU will break up and a lot of people will be deported. Watch.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

well lots of the 'right wing' supporters of Trump have liberal beliefs too in terms of social safety net stuff, but xenophobia and nativism is a tool of the cons and that's who these people will vote for so

 

[Richard]

Pig fucker's out.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/23/the-brexit-contagion-how-france-italy-and-the-netherlands-now-wa/

those countries want to separate themselves from the EU also.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

Guy Verhofstadt Verified account ‏@GuyVerhofstadt 2m2 minutes ago

In last 8 hours, UK lost $350bn, which is a greater amount than they contributed to EU budget over last 15 years - including rebate #Brexit
65 retweets 21 likes

lol

 

[909]

European racism was always going to win out in the end. They were never going to allow the countries of their ancestors to become a place where minorities would become the majority of people. The US and Canada are different because we don't really care, but in European countries where leadership can be far more tenuous, this was the eventual result. Tribalism is part of the European DNA. I don't know why this myth that Europeans were more tolerant ever picked up steam, but I guess everyone knows that's over now.

For leftist parties to win elections in Europe acknowledging this will have to be in their party platform. For people to torpedo their economy when they were told that's what would happen just so they can get rid of immigrants and have their own immigration control, that says a LOT. This was also a referendum on globalization, so much of the leave vote was made up of former Labour working class voters that they've lost. Much of the remain campaign was arrogant and didn't take this seriously. Cameron only promised to hold the referendum so that he'd win the elections last year, and nobody campaigned seriously in favor of remaining. People have to be convinced of the positive effects of a global economy. This also must be acknowledged. If people don't see any tangible effects from globalism we're in for an interesting life and I don't know what would come from it in the end.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

For people to torpedo their economy when they were told that's what would happen just so they can get rid of immigrants and have their own immigration control, that says a LOT.

actually, they didn't believe those numbers and believed lots of bullshit

The CBI, the IMF, the OECD, the IFS - an alphabet soup of experts lined up to say economic growth would be hobbled, unemployment would go up, the pound would plummet and British business would be left in a no man's land outside the EU.

Some on the Remain side accepted this was overkill and that so-called "Project Fear" had got a bit out of hand while the Leave campaign was quick to dismiss the naysayers as wealthy, unaccountable elites with their own vested interests talking down Britain.

But the fact the public discounted so readily the advice of experts points to something more than just a revolt against the establishment. It suggested far more people felt left behind and untouched by the economic benefits of five decades of EU involvement being trumpeted.

The assertion that leaving the EU would free up £350m a week extra to spend on the NHS is the kind of political slogan that campaigns dream of: striking, easy to understand and attractive to voters of different ages and political persuasions.

No surprise then that Vote Leave chose to splash it across the side of their battle bus.

The fact that the claim does not stand up to much scrutiny - the figure is calculated using sums which were disputed by the Treasury Select Committee and described as potentially misleading by the UK Statistics Authority - did not reduce its potency.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/brexit-public-health_us_576c128de4b0b489bb0ca6d9?section=politics

they're fucked