"What if's" of sports history

[the max]

Bledsoe took out a two page ad in the Globe when he got traded and I think he got cheered every time he came back as a visitor.

 

[BruiserBrody]

What if Tom Brady hadn't blown out his knee in week 1 of the 2008 season?

On that note, what if Drew Bledsoe's guts didn't bleed all over his insides in 01, making way for Brady? Would we have Drew Bledsoe, New England sports hero instead of Drew Bledsoe, Inexplicable New England sports pariah?

Patriots fans don't hate Bledsoe. I'm not sure what you're talking about.

Pretty sure I recall a QB controversy prior to Bledsoe being shipped to...to...the Bills(?)

 

[Vitamin X]

You wouldn't know it by the way Pats fans act (or maybe acted) about him years ago

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

You wouldn't know it by the way Pats fans act (or maybe acted) about him years ago

I was in Boston a couple of years ago and they were all very respectful towards Bledsoe. Certainly the ones I know personally appreciate what he accomplished. Maybe time healed the wounds.

 

[the max]

From what I remember (and I'm sure PK or an actual Pats fan can recall better than I) the controversy was whether or not to put him back in when he healed. Brady had led the team pretty well in his absence and I think people wanted to just ride the hot hand. Bledsoe was then traded before the 2002 season.

 

[CanadianGuitarist]

What if Sidney Crosby wasn't concussed during last season?

He has a stellar, but probably not record-breaking season. It's naive to say Pittsburgh beats Boston, but......it's tough to bet against a team so designed for the playoffs the way the Broons are.

 

[CanadianGuitarist]

Golf is chock full of them, but they're all more or less the same. I recall posting one the day after the '05 Masters at the old board, and all of them would still apply. The non-golf fans probably say "What if Tiger isn't caught cheating?", but I really think his problems are more physical than psychological.

EDIT: Tiger really only lost, we'll say, a combined ten majors from his '08 surgery, fallout from his cheating and divorce, and his '11 surgery. I'm going to say if that's moot, then he wins around 20 majors. He breaks, but doesn't shatter, Jack's record. Even now, the fields are so deep (presumably 22-year-olds who watched Tiger when they were 12). The others don't matter. Hogan wins 14 if he doesn't have a car accident. Palmer wins nine if he has access to the equipment Tiger did. Etc., etc.

 

[the max]

The Bruins might have struggled with Crosby but without Malkin the Pens still would have had rough sledding. The Lightning gave the Bruins all they can handle because of the offensive depth and backchecking. The Pens don't play that as well as the Lightning.

 

[CanadianGuitarist]

The Bruins might have struggled with Crosby but without Malkin the Pens still would have had rough sledding. The Lightning gave the Bruins all they can handle because of the offensive depth and backchecking. The Pens don't play that as well as the Lightning.

What if Boston beats Carolina in '09?

 

[the max]

They win the Cup. The '09 team was probably the best Bruins team I have seen in my life. They didn't have flashy players but good christ. They were relentless forecheckers with a toughness that was just unrivaled and seemingly built for the playoffs. They lost to Carolina because Julien was outcoached and allowed Carolina to decide when Chara would play rather than dictating the matchup himself. He went out of his way to move Z on and off the ice, no matter what the situation was, depending on whether Staal was on the ice. Julien lost them that series and the Flyers series in 2010.

 

[NoCalMike]

Redskins @ Tampa Bay playoffs 1999:

Two big what-ifs:

1) 4th down, 'Skins D forces Shaun King to fumble...the ball rolls towards out of bounds, but Warrick Dunn happens to be standing there, picks up the ball that rolled to him runs for 1st down to keep drive alive.

2) Redskins botch a snap on a 51 yard FG attempt.....never get the attempt off.

Tampa Bay 14 Redskins 13
I remember back then I was 19, worked on the weekends, took a 2 hour "lunch break" in a back room in back of the lot. Was pretty dejected after the game, started getting calls from all my co-workers who had the day off to take the piss outta me.

P.S. my memory is kind of hazy, but I believe the 'Skins even went for field goal on 3rd down attempt just in case it messed up so they would have another chance. And then screwed up both tries...I could be wrong though.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

From what I remember (and I'm sure PK or an actual Pats fan can recall better than I) the controversy was whether or not to put him back in when he healed. Brady had led the team pretty well in his absence and I think people wanted to just ride the hot hand. Bledsoe was then traded before the 2002 season.

Pretty much it was this. Bledsoe was the man in New England prior to his injury and many fans thought he should have gotten the job back or at least had a chance to rest a week or two and then get the job back. Brady had been very solid but even at the time, fans kind of figured Brady was more a stop gap replacement until Bledsoe got healthy despite the success on the field.

The best comparison I can make would be a Curtis Painter coming in as a starter after Peyton goes down to injury. It's generally assumed Peyton would start when healthy. And it's not like Pats fans knew we had arguably one of the best QBs ever playing in front of our eyes.

Bledsoe helping the Patriots win the AFC Title game was one of my sweetest moments (on an emotional level) of that 2001 season knowing what he had endured (IIRC the injury was so bad he wasn't even allowed to so much as lift up his kids, etc.)

Also even after Bledsoe was dealt, Pats fans have always had respect for what he did for the Patriots so I'm not sure where this hatred thing is coming from. Hindsight makes the QB situation more of a controversy than I think it really was and paints a picture of Patriots fans saying "good riddance" when Bledsoe got traded. I was more shocked at trading Bledsoe (even with Brady's SB win) than I've been at anything else, even the acquisitions of Randy Moss or Ochocinco.

 

[MFer]

What if the Lions made the playoffs in 2000? Last game of the regular season, Paul Edinger hits a 54-yard FG on the last play to knock Detroit out of a playoff spot. In comes Matt Millen the following offseason, and the rest is unfortunate history.

 

[snuffbox]

What if Cus D'Amato lived for another ten years?

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

What if the Red Sox keep Babe Ruth?

 

[HarleyQuinn]

What if the Red Sox keep Babe Ruth?

I find it boring when people just pose a question without delving into it anymore than that. So I'll take a quick crack at this since answering is a ton more fun anyway.

- They probably win only 2-3 titles but Ruth sticks as a mixed outfielder/pitcher with solid success at both positions. He doesn't get near his final HR total in part due to the mixed roles and the fact that he played in Fenway (which hurt his totals). It's telling he went from 29 HR with Boston to 54 and 59 his first 2 seasons with the Yankees.
- Boston didn't quite have a deep roster of talent so their success would be somewhat short lived, even with Ruth on the roster. I think Ruth either finishes his career around 150-200 W as a pitcher and 450-550 HR or eventually gets traded in the twilight of his career in his mid 30's after the dual role/alcoholism ruins his body.

 

[Smues]

What if Jim Leyritz is aborted as a fetus? We probably still lose the 96 series somehow, but it's nice to dream.

Oh and at least one person who is dead today would be alive, so there's that too.

 

[the max]

That's debatable since she had a higher BAC that night. She just didn't have a seatbelt on. She probably would have died the same way or killed someone else.

 

[alkeiper]

What if the Red Sox keep Babe Ruth?

I find it boring when people just pose a question without delving into it anymore than that. So I'll take a quick crack at this since answering is a ton more fun anyway.

- They probably win only 2-3 titles but Ruth sticks as a mixed outfielder/pitcher with solid success at both positions. He doesn't get near his final HR total in part due to the mixed roles and the fact that he played in Fenway (which hurt his totals). It's telling he went from 29 HR with Boston to 54 and 59 his first 2 seasons with the Yankees.
- Boston didn't quite have a deep roster of talent so their success would be somewhat short lived, even with Ruth on the roster. I think Ruth either finishes his career around 150-200 W as a pitcher and 450-550 HR or eventually gets traded in the twilight of his career in his mid 30's after the dual role/alcoholism ruins his body.

1. Ruth becomes a full time outfielder. The writing was on the wall once he hit 29. In fact, Ruth only started three games after July 30 that season. All three were parts of doubleheaders. As the season went on Ruth was playing LF more and pitching less.

2. Ruth hit 20 home runs on the road in 1919, just 9 at Fenway Park. It was near impossible to hit home runs in that park. Ruth probably hits 35-40 playing full time, but not 54-59.

3. Ruth's trade was part of a larger narrative of the Red Sox trading players to the Yankees. Ruth, Wally Schang, Everett Scott, Sam Jones, Joe Bush, Carl Mays. The 1923 World Series winning Yankees was built entirely on those trades.

4. Bigger picture still. Without the Carl Mays trade there's less animosity between the Yankees/Red Sox and American League commissioner Ban Johnson. The Yankees/Red Sox owners were aligned with White Sox owner Charles Comiskey against the other five AL teams. Without that feud, the fallout from the 1919 World Series turns out far differently.

 

[Mazto]

What if Dominique Wilkins didn't want so much money from teh Jazz forcing them to trade him to Atlanta?

Stockton would still be there and Malone would have as well. A trio of Stockton, Malone, Wilkins, add in Eaton in the middle would have been damn solid team even in the stacked 80's.

 

[Big Beard Booty Daddy]

What if the Red Sox keep Babe Ruth?

I find it boring when people just pose a question without delving into it anymore than that. So I'll take a quick crack at this since answering is a ton more fun anyway.

- They probably win only 2-3 titles but Ruth sticks as a mixed outfielder/pitcher with solid success at both positions. He doesn't get near his final HR total in part due to the mixed roles and the fact that he played in Fenway (which hurt his totals). It's telling he went from 29 HR with Boston to 54 and 59 his first 2 seasons with the Yankees.
- Boston didn't quite have a deep roster of talent so their success would be somewhat short lived, even with Ruth on the roster. I think Ruth either finishes his career around 150-200 W as a pitcher and 450-550 HR or eventually gets traded in the twilight of his career in his mid 30's after the dual role/alcoholism ruins his body.

1. Ruth becomes a full time outfielder. The writing was on the wall once he hit 29. In fact, Ruth only started three games after July 30 that season. All three were parts of doubleheaders. As the season went on Ruth was playing LF more and pitching less.

2. Ruth hit 20 home runs on the road in 1919, just 9 at Fenway Park. It was near impossible to hit home runs in that park. Ruth probably hits 35-40 playing full time, but not 54-59.

3. Ruth's trade was part of a larger narrative of the Red Sox trading players to the Yankees. Ruth, Wally Schang, Everett Scott, Sam Jones, Joe Bush, Carl Mays. The 1923 World Series winning Yankees was built entirely on those trades.

4. Bigger picture still. Without the Carl Mays trade there's less animosity between the Yankees/Red Sox and American League commissioner Ban Johnson. The Yankees/Red Sox owners were aligned with White Sox owner Charles Comiskey against the other five AL teams. Without that feud, the fallout from the 1919 World Series turns out far differently.

Do either of you think the history of the Yankees end up differently? Did they go on to win all those World Series while the Red Sox go all that time without winning one?

 

[alkeiper]

Do either of you think the history of the Yankees end up differently? Did they go on to win all those World Series while the Red Sox go all that time without winning one?

The Yankees absolutely. Babe Ruth was the biggest sports attraction of the 1920s. Without him there's no use to building a 70000+ capacity mega-stadium. In the short term the Giants remain the biggest baseball team in the city. Now the Yankees still find Lou Gehrig so they enjoy some success. More-so when the Great Depression hits. The long term success depends on if they are still able to find and sign Joe Dimaggio.

As for the Red Sox, still depends on how much of a firesale they have. If none they may win a World Series yet. But they developed no talent at all in the 1920s. So they may experience the same drought.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I think the Yankees still win 1 title themselves as long as they still landed guys like OF Bob Meusel and 1B Lou Gehrig. Part of the problem is that, as Al said, half their dynasty really came from the Boston Red Sox (especially on the rotation side).

In the long term, I think the Red Sox get a bit more of the "legendary" team status by having Ruth but that championship wise they still only finish slightly ahead of the New York Yankees (assuming decades like the 40's, 50's, etc. don't stay the same).

I seem to be a little more bullish on the Red Sox winning a title in the 1920's-1935 range by having Ruth than Al is. By the 1923 season, they had pretty much sent any semblance of talent they had to the Yankees in real life.

1919: Yankees get SP Carl Mays who wins 26 and 27 games the next 2 Seasons.
1921: Yankees get SP Waite Hoyt who proceeds to win 17+ a season.
1922: Yankees get SP Sad Sam Jones who procceds to go 21-8 in 1923. They also get Bullet Joe Bush who wins 26 games after going 16-9 with Boston in 1921.

 

[KingPK]

From what I remember (and I'm sure PK or an actual Pats fan can recall better than I) the controversy was whether or not to put him back in when he healed. Brady had led the team pretty well in his absence and I think people wanted to just ride the hot hand. Bledsoe was then traded before the 2002 season.

Harley hit most of the points I was going to make, but Bledsoe's playoff performances left something to be desired, which is probably where most of the negativity came from. After he came into the AFCC in Pitt and threw the TD he had a pretty poor second half that was negated by the Pats' special teams and Kordell Stuart being worse.

I think Brady would have at least had a shot at the starting job in the 2002 season since Belichick was REALLY high on him.

EDIT: Also, Bledsoe was kind of a dying breed of QB, the "immobile gunslinger" (he led the league in pass attempts something like 4 times and got sacked a TON the last few years in NE (and his years after NE, IIRC). I think all that adds up to an eventual QB change regardless of what happened (unless Bledsoe won the SB, though with Bill even THAT might not do it.)

 

[wnyxmcneal]

I don't know what the effects would be, so Boston fans can tackle it-

What if Grady takes Pedro out?

 

[Master Thrasher]

What if the Dodgers moved the Queens and played in Shea Stadium instead of moving to LA?

-Gene Autry would still petition for a team in So Cal. The Giants still suffering attendance issues would look for a new market to play in. The Giants would move to San Francisco and the expansion Angels would play in the NL in LA.

 

[the max]

The bullpen likely shuts the door sooner than Pedro would have and the Red Sox win the ALCS.

Timlin/Embree/Williamson, in a combined 24.3 innings, had a 26/5 k/bb and had only allowed 9 baserunners. They were dominating that postseason. If Little went to them, he would have been using a better pitcher since Pedro was gassed. They had a 3 run lead.

 

[Vitamin X]

What if Len Bias doesn't dive into a pile of cocaine and die?

 

[alkeiper]

What if the Dodgers moved the Queens and played in Shea Stadium instead of moving to LA?

-Gene Autry would still petition for a team in So Cal. The Giants still suffering attendance issues would look for a new market to play in. The Giants would move to San Francisco and the expansion Angels would play in the NL in LA.

The Giants move to Minneapolis. The Pacific Coast League makes an attempt to form a third major league. The Majors at that point were WAY beyond the point of needing to expand. After the Dodgers and Giants left New York City a third league was on the verge of creation with teams in New York, Houston and other jilted cities. A new league with teams in Seattle, San Diego, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Oakland, Hollywood, Sacramento and Portland would have a decent shot of success.

The Pacific Coast League in the early '50s had moved beyond AAA into the rarely used "Open" category. The westward move of the National League into their two biggest markets cut them off. But had the NL not acted it's quite probable the PCL would've made a jump.

 

[Byron The Bulb]

What if Len Bias doesn't dive into a pile of cocaine and die?

Kevin Garnett never gets a ring.