Wrestlemania 25

[KOAB]

Mike Knox

 

[luke-o]

Mike Knox

By the beard of Knox, you may have it!

 

[BurningPirateShipSex]

Knox's beard alone should be enough to overcome Cena.

 

[Silence]

Knox's beard alone should be enough to overcome Cena.

Can it help him get out of Cena's "deadly" STF?

 

[luke-o]

Knox's beard alone should be enough to overcome Cena.

Can it help him get out of Cena's "deadly" STF?

Pssh, the beard is so powerful, he wouldn't be able to lock it on.

 

[MFer]

Checked out most of the replay late last night online:

MITB-Very good, would've preferred to see Christian win but oh well.

Divas-Waste of time (didn't really watch much of that or the Kid Rock stuff).

Jericho/Legends-Very impressed wih Steamboat.

Hardys-Pretty good, about as good as we could probably expect (correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Jeff's ever won at WM, while Matt's 2-0 in singles matches, ironically enough).

JBL/Mysterio-Short, but funny.

Michaels/Taker-Definitely an outstanding match. I don't know if it's five stars or not but I enjoyed it a ton (loved HBK's entrance as well).

Triple Threat-Good, not great. I'm probably in the minority, but I think Big Show winning would've been cool and different.

Orton/HHH-Meh. Nothing really wrong with the match, but it wasn't very exciting to me. Would've rather seen Orton win, but I wasn't expecting him to.

Also disappointed to see the lack of a tag title match. Actually, it's disappointing in general to see the lack of usage with the secondary titles in most of the recent WM's.

 

[BurningPirateShipSex]

Checked out most of the replay late last night online:

MITB-Very good, would've preferred to see Christian win but oh well.

I thought after Christian outsmarted Benjamin by balancing on the top rope (a callback to Benjamin's spot a year earlier) he was winning. Apparently, the crowd thought so too.

 

[luke-o]

I'm very suprised they put the case on Punk, I really thought this might have been MVP's year.

 

[Jaxxxson Mayhem]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/arash_markazi/04/06/wrestlemania-wrapup/index.html


Cool article about Piper behind the scenes at WM. Also has a story about Lawler being disappointed about not ever wrestling at a WM.

 

[The Metal Maniac]

Undertaker/HBK was fantastic. I don't think I've been so into a match since I was a kid. I thought Taker had legit hurt himself with the plancha, because of the way he landed and the fact that he didn't seem to move a muscle until the ref started counting. I could not believe that HBK kicked out of the Tombstone. Seriously, has anyone ever kicked out of the cross-armed pin following a tombstone? I know HHH got his foot on the ropes not too long ago, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone getting their shoulder up. Just an outstanding match.

I enjoyed the whole show; I felt every match delivered what it promised - the worst part, in my eyes, was Kid Rock playing a bunch of 10-year old songs. I mean, doesn't he at least have new songs he could've played? I didn't see the whole performance, cuz I went out for a smoke, but man...

Also, I didn't know they had cut the tag title match from the show, so it surprised me to see them run HBK/Taker and the two title matches in a row; I thought they were saving the tag match to break up the main events, give people a break. Seemed to me that the crowd was really dying down by the end.

 

[Aero]

I could not believe that HBK kicked out of the Tombstone. Seriously, has anyone ever kicked out of the cross-armed pin following a tombstone? I know HHH got his foot on the ropes not too long ago, but I don't recall ever seeing anyone getting their shoulder up.

The only other one that comes to mind is Kane at WM XIV. He actually kicked out twice, before being pinned after the third Tombstone with a regular pin with hooked leg.

It's been a long time since I was legitimately surprised by someone kicking out of a pin. I thought HBK was done after the skin the cat Tombstone.

 

[DrVenkman PhD]

Ha, Joy Giovanni was secretly in the battle royal according to the pictures on WWE.com. Based on those pictures, I also confused Jackie for Mickie James.

 

[JHawk]

I confused Jackie Gayda for Victoria

 

[JHawk]

So I broke my rule about posting on WWE Universe outside of the wwe.com legacy forum, but I figured I had to after reading the following comment regarding people bitching about the tag match not making the show:

Card subject to change -> no false advertising

My response:

Card subject to change is there so if somebody gets injured and can't compete, or if someone has a family emergency and has to leave, or if someone has transportation issues and can't get to the show, they have an out. It is designed for things out of the control of the promoter. It is not an excuse to take one of the most heavily advertised matches on the card and make it a dark match at the last minute with no warning. Intentionally making it a dark match is false advertising, because it was not due to something out of control of the promoter.

And before someone plays the "They announced it on wwe.com before the show" card, not everybody has internet access. Not everybody who has internet access was able to access wwe.com in the final three hours before showtime. And to further slap the fans who bought the show before the announcement was made, they couldn't even bother to so much as mention the match during the show. Had the show opened with JR saying "Because we want to make sure the main events have enough time to make the show, we had our Tag Team Title Unification Match before we went on the air. If we have enough time to show it tonight, we will, but if we don't, we'll show highlights on Raw tomorrow night and it will be available in its entirety on the DVD release," it still would have sucked, but at least they'd have acknowledged the fact that it couldn't air for some reason.

Instead, having not been on wwe.com all day so I could take my two year old daughter to the park, I watched a four hour PPV and didn't see one of the matches I was most looking forward to.

I don't even want the full $54.95 refund. I'll accept a free copy of the DVD when it comes out.

And before you think I'm an overreacting fanboy, let me tell you about the last seven shows I paid for.

1. July 25, 2008 house show, Youngstown, OH. Shawn Michaels was scheduled to be in one of the only two matches advertised ahead of time. Unable to compete due to the eye injury suffered at The Great American Bash. Fair enough reason, except they never bothered to tell the live crowd he wasn't there at the start of the show.

2. Unforgiven PPV in Cleveland. I'm always up for attending a nearby PPV. I spent $65 per person to see two blatant bits of false advertising. The first one, the fact that Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ended without a pin or submission despite the fact that the only way the could end was by pinfall or submission. Second, CM Punk gets attacked backstage, and somehow Jericho, the same man who was so unable to continue that they changed the stipulation of his earlier match, ends up being the replacement and winning the World Heavyweight Title. Two cases of intentional false advertising in a three hour PPV.

3. Survivor Series 2008. Jeff Hardy attacked in his hotel, Edge returns and wins title. Once again, "storyline" taking away a match I paid to see.

4. Royal Rumble 2009. No false advertising even though Matt turning on Jeff sucked.

5. Raw in Cleveland, 1/26/2009. No false advertising on the card itself, but one result made meaningless over the next three weeks. Kofi Kingston beats Kane to qualify for the Elimination Chamber. But a) Kane made the match anyway and b) Kingston didn't. Which leads me to...

6. No Way Out. Edge attacks Kingston, takes his spot in the Elimination Chamber, wins the World Heavyweight Title.

7. And now last night. I bought the card before the announcement the match wouldn't air. For me to order a PPV, there have to be three matches I want to see. Those three were Taker-Michaels, which delivered, Money in the Bank, which delivered, and the tag team title unification match, which didn't air and, as I understand it from someone who was there, was one of the best matches of the night.

So yes, considering five of the last seven shows I've paid to see, either in person or on PPV, have fallen to the dreaded "card subject to change" clause, I feel I'm entitled to something for my trouble.

 

[Adam]

4. Royal Rumble 2009. No false advertising even though Matt turning on Jeff sucked.

Nice

 

[Papacita]

The first one, the fact that Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ended without a pin or submission despite the fact that the only way the could end was by pinfall or submission.

In kayfabe terms, wouldn't a stoppage techically count as a submission?

 

[zio]

MMA Fans: Explain the jab Meltzer took at Affliction by comparing the Kid Rock performance to Affliction: Banned. Thanks!

Megadeth played and the crowd shit on it

Did they not play their rendition of the Duke Nukem theme? I would have been pretty mad if they didn't and pretty happy if they did.

Reviews to Meltz have been mixed at best, but "In the Middle" seems to come up an awful lot, though one guy really seemed to "get it" with his Mania 21 comparison. Mania 21 is a great MITB match and a great Shawn Michaels match with a time wasting Piper's Pit, two weak world title matches on a top, and a sumo wrestling match. But that good is so good that I think that's a pretty great Mania.

Bite your tongue. Batista/HHH from WM 21 was damn good. The buildup to it had an almost old school feel to it, as well. HHH "gigging" was also a highlight. THAT WAS A GREAT MATCH YOU MONSTER

 

[zio]

And before you think I'm an overreacting fanboy

Seriously? Look at your response.

 

[JHawk]

And before you think I'm an overreacting fanboy

Seriously? Look at your response.

I'll admit I embellished a little bit. I didn't actually pay for No Way Out. ;D

 

[JHawk]

The first one, the fact that Michaels vs. Chris Jericho ended without a pin or submission despite the fact that the only way the could end was by pinfall or submission.

In kayfabe terms, wouldn't a stoppage techically count as a submission?

So, theoretically, would excessive bleeding, but Bob Backlund lost about 100 title matches that way without dropping the belt, so...

 

[DrVenkman PhD]

MMA Fans: Explain the jab Meltzer took at Affliction by comparing the Kid Rock performance to Affliction: Banned. Thanks!

Megadeth played and the crowd shit on it

Did they not play their rendition of the Duke Nukem theme? I would have been pretty mad if they didn't and pretty happy if they did.

Reviews to Meltz have been mixed at best, but "In the Middle" seems to come up an awful lot, though one guy really seemed to "get it" with his Mania 21 comparison. Mania 21 is a great MITB match and a great Shawn Michaels match with a time wasting Piper's Pit, two weak world title matches on a top, and a sumo wrestling match. But that good is so good that I think that's a pretty great Mania.

Bite your tongue. Batista/HHH from WM 21 was damn good. The buildup to it had an almost old school feel to it, as well. HHH "gigging" was also a highlight. THAT WAS A GREAT MATCH YOU MONSTER

The build was great and I liked the match in 2005, but I didn't even put Disc 2 of Mania 21 in when doing my marathon. Woo, Batista busts out an Air Raid Slam! 5 stars!

 

[zio]

YOU'REEEE FIIIRRRREEEEDDDDDDDDD

 

[HTQ]

I'd say a Thumbs in the Middle with it slightly pointing down. It was good just not good by Wrestlemania standards. Undertaker/Shawn was great and the home stretch was fantastic. MitB was a nice stuntfest but it was lacking something. The three-way was fine but you expect better in a top match at Wrestlemania. The legends deal was horrible unless Steamboat was in there. Steamboat was obviously rusty but even at 80% he looked far more solid than a lot of the roster. The Diva match was a cluster and had no point but to set up a Santina/Santino. Why bring in all those women and then do nothing to get any of them over? The main event was a strange one for me. It wasn't bad but it didn't seem to really click and the heat wasn't there for the most part. And where were the McMahon's and Legacy?

A fine card but for a Wrestlemania? Hard to call it anything other than a letdown.

 

[NoCalMike]

Orton/HHH was medicore. The crowd was dead, yet you still had Triple H being a huge mark for himself after the match doing all sorts of poses and "tough faces"

HBK/UT was amazing. Best match I have seen in awhile, it's matches like this that will get me watching wrestling again.

MITB match was good.

Jericho v. Legends, well at least they did the right thing and let Jericho go over...

Diva Battle Royale: umm, tell me why advertise all these legends and then barely show them, it just looked like a big blur of punches going on. I think maybe there were supposed to be longer entrances but because of time they had to hurry it, but it was still a shame not being able to see Sunny for more than 10 seconds(if that). And it was a pain having to listen to the commentators pretend they didn't know who Santino was.

Cena/Big Show/Edge: eh, it was ok but it felt like a typical match I'd see on Raw/Smackdown

 

[DrVenkman PhD]

I was checking portions of the show out again while Raw was delayed for basketball in Canada. Something I didn't see get mentioned a lot was Rey doing his launch pad entrance for the first time in years after his bad knees made doing so unwise. It's small touches like these (and other wacky entrances) that make WrestleMania stand-out as special.

As for Undertaker's scary dive, I watched it a few times in slow motion and frame by frame and while I'm sure it still sucked for him, he did appear to be in the process of tucking his head in to roll when it looked like the camera man wasn't going to catch his dive. Then I did it from the other angle and the dude actually appeared to be in the way of Undertaker saving himself. Ouch.

 

[samoarowe]

Well, I just watched 72 minutes of this show on Megavideo (the limit unless you pay for a membership, but fuck that) and I got as far as the Extreme Rules match. I found Money in the Bank to be very enjoyable, the divas battle royal was a mess, I skipped through the entire Kid Rock set, the Jericho/Legends match was far better than it had any right to be, and the Extreme Rules match didn't live up to it's potential. I really felt that both Hardy's weren't really putting much emotion into the match and just going through the motions, as awesome as some of the spots were.

Also, should point out, since I'm skipping entrances, video packages, and the usual BS, I'm on target to finish the show in a little under two hours once Megavideo lets me back in.

 

[daileyxplanet]

These comments were made while I watch the show, so I apologize if it seems a little disheveled.

Money In The Bank
Great show of athleticism from all participants. Hornswoggle was actually funny for once. I hope Vince paid attention to the reaction Christian got when he almost won. As a Punk fan I can't complain about his win.

Kid Rock
Bawitaba - Isn't the point of a TV performance to put over your current album. Dumb and crappier than the original.
Rock & Roll Jesus - I don't even know this song.
Cowboy - See Bawitaba
All Summer Long - Unfortunately the song the crowd was waiting for.
So Hott - Just a typical Kid Rock drivel

Surprised they didn't do American Warrior since that is their National Guard campaign song. And I assume that is the whole reason why Kid Rock was here, that campaign.

Battle Royal
The silence is deafening. I really hope Sunny makes a return for good. I love a good 2nd chance, and I feel she deserves it. Cole busted out a "Will you stop!?" although I'm sure it wasn't intentional. Still a nice tribute to Gorilla. WWE mentality ridiculous. It is too obvious it's Santino. The victory dance is really funny though. I can't wait for the backlash.

Jericho vs. HOF
As someone said before I LOVE Snuka's SUPER SUPER SUPERFLY! Glad to see Ric come back for one last one-shot before the end of his retirement tour. Wow I never thought I'd seen Piper especially now, perform a drop kick. Vintage Steamboat.... Cole finally made sense! Obviously Steamboat was the star of the match. Glad Piper did well. Sorry to say it but Superfly was the Albatross, so actually glad to see him leave. Totally thought Steamboat won w/ the cross body. Someone said earlier about having a crappy director. I cannot believe they missed skinning the cat. This match is where a series of near falls work. Say what you will, but there was quite a bit of heat in this match. Just noticed this during the Jericho/Rourke altercation. Why is there a HUGE monitor right in front of Rourke? Is that some sort of VIP perk? Also it looks like Mickey is a Shawn Michaels fan with that hat. Rourke's already found the art of stalling. I don't know if it was intentional, but good job on the left hook not looking planned.

Owen vs. Bret Hardy
I am SO over the Hardy's. Is Matt a puppy killer? Probably. I don't even care about this match. But I will watch it anyways. I wish Dusty Rhodes was calling this match a la Benoit and Sullivan. "They're gather in' the plundah if you wheeel! They in the john!" Whisper to the chair shot was a nice spot. I wish the Papa Hardy was in the crowd a la the Hart battles. "Was any of those more personal?" - Cole. I could honestly say no. It was Taker that burned down the house. And the Harts was more about the competition and rivalry than drama. The end kinda seemed to come out of no where considering the rest of the match.

JBL vs. Mysterio
Classic JBL promo. I'm gonna miss him on the mic. That's for sure. Mysterio looks ridiculous as Joker. I'd say he's channeling Caeser Romero more than Heath Ledger. Should've gone with either Wolverine or Rorschach. Ah well. Why are they discussing JBL's weight? Rey should've gone with a frog slash as a subtle nod to JBL wanting Eddie as his last match. JBL is a class act. I don't care if he stiffed Meanie or whoever.

The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels
I can't help but imagine this is what Mordecai vs. Undertaker would be like. Oh well. Nice heavenly descent. Praying during an entrance finally makes sense. I see posters of 16-1. Can't even a mark realize Taker is winning? I guess that's the trappings of smarkdom. It's blatantly obvious once you see what's at the end of the rabbit hole. It's amazing how they refer to the HIAC as Shawn outmaneuvering Taker when he was clearly beaten 'til Kane arrived. The puncher vs. the boxer, JR? Aren't those the same thing? What a killer move Shawn! Get it? Killer? I did like the figure-four counter to Hell's Gate. Moonsault to the floor. That couldn't have felt good. I love that Michaels' unnatural hate of cameramen came up in this match. Surely that was some indy wrestler, right? This could have easily been the end of the match and I wouldn't have feel ripped off. Alas. 'That's the biggest chokeslam I've ever seen!" Is he forgetting about the choke slam to hell? And JR effs up too calling it a clothesline. Whoops. Finally a SCM. 1...2...nope. Goozled! Last Ride? Nope. Last Ride? Yep. And he got some air. Another near fall. Taker channeling Savage but missed. Skin the cat to the tombstone is actually innovative. Should've been the finish. Taker now channeling Angle w/ lowering the singlet makes him serious. DDT is ineffective as Taker's head is nowhere near the mat. Oh well. Michaels tributes himself with the elbow. This is going a little too long... Nasty big boot. Moonsault to Tombstone. Still not as good as the skinning the cat.

Triple Threat
Vicky Guerrero truly gets the loudest boos. Possibly louder than McMahon in the Attitude Era. Why didn't the champion come out last? Word Life! Will the real John Cena please stand up? I'm glad the alleged Chain Gang finally showed up after years of mention. I love the shoot fight announcements. A little touch that makes things feel bigger. I enjoy Big Show being tied up in the ropes with the other two going at it. Did JR just call Big Show's hands EASY BAKE OVENS!? Cena sold the punch very well. Nice barricade spot. I'm a sucker for stuff breaking, especially if Show is involved, which adds some legitimacy. Banzai drop? No, I wish though... Double suplex spots in triple threats are nice. More accidental cooperation. Falling into a spear... Love it. OMFGFU! Finish came out of nowhere though. FIREWORX. Cena cheezin' with his haters.

WrestleMania XXVI Desert Heat

HOF
Austin in a suit is surreal. Whose bird is that? Austin looks genuinely happy to be there. ATV time... STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD! Austin 3:16 shirt, nice. I'm glad Austin put JR over as he wouldn't have had HALF the impact w/o Ross' calling it.

72,744... God that's a lot of humanity.

THE MAIN EVENT
This buildup has been a little ridiculous. Can't a title match just be about the title anymore? Can they go back to the Undisputed Championship look for the WWE title? I was doing dishes while watching this match so comments aren't as in-depth. It's sorta ridiculous how many times HHH has been in the WM main event. I didn't like this match at all. I definitely liked the triple threat better. Cheating faces always annoys me, ever since Hogan. And the commentator always tries to cover it up.

MOTN: Shawn Michaels vs. Undertaker

 

[KOAB]

I've been reading around that Sim Snuka was one of the cameramen...

Mania payday anyway you can get it.

 

[Jaxxxson Mayhem]

There's a big difference between a puncher and a boxer.

 

[oldskool]

I'd imagine the screen in front of Rourke was required because otherwise anything shown that wasn't in-ring would be unviewable. They don't have the angle to see the overhead scoreboard screens, and they'd have to do a full 180 to see the entrance screen (which is a pain in the ass at things like RAW, so I can only imagine how neck-straining it'd be at WM where the video packages take 5 minutes a pop).

Now that I think about it, didn't HHH & Orton have a Last Man Standing match at No Mercy 2007 for no personal reason other than delivering the promised Last Man Standing match that was originally scheduled as Orton v. Cena? If so, that makes the booking of the main event that much more retarded; you put them in a ridiculous bloodbath "because we advertised one", but not because the guy faceplanted the other guy's wife TWICE? That match was dying for over-the-top violence & bloodshed and instead it fell flat on its face.