2024 Election

[cobainwasmurdered]

Biden is a better President than Clinton IMO. The economy was obviously much better under Bill but his policies on crime did massive damage. His use of the military was not very good. There were a lot of things not to like about Bill without even getting into the fact that he's almost certainly a rapist. Biden for his many flaws ended the Afghanistan war when no one else was ever going to. His handling of the Ukranian-Russia conflict has been good. Basically all of his foreign policy actions have been smart.

I don't know if I'd call Biden a "good" President because I don't know if I'd call any recent President good but I'd put him ahead of Clinton, both Bush's, and Trump as far as my lifetime. I'd need to see the longterm effects of his term to say if he's better than Obama or to be sure of a final ranking though.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

I don't believe Bill Clinton ever gave a shit about anyone or anything other than advancing himself. I at least believe Biden cares about people when I see him talk in town halls or about his dead kids, so either he's a hell of a liar or there's something genuine about him.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Biden is, and always has been, a flawed man of humble origin. His parents were wealthy when he was born, but they lost it when he was still very young, so he understands the struggle to a degree few Presidents have before. It's great to see such a pro-labor POTUS in my lifetime, and his administration has pushed for union strength to grow, but there's only so much an old man can do when he's spending all this time fixing the last asshole's fuck ups.

That's about as nice as I can be toward him.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Last few months made me grateful that Maine has ranked choice voting for POTUS. I was pretty adamant that I’d be vote blue no matter who for #1 but Biden’s stance on Israel has me strongly considering bumping him down to #2.


Still like CWM said in the Biden thread we are still a year away and who knows if the presumed nominees will even be alive by then or what the hell will be happening in Gaza by then. Hopefully Gaza is still around in a year?

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

Where do you think Gaza is going? Do you think Israel is going to kill millions of people? Every other country has made clear they won't take any of the people under any circumstance. Egypt has basically said they'd kill them first.

What should the US policy be towards Israel and Gaza? I don't know. So far the US seems to be trying to stop them from just going totally ham while voicing support.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

He seems to want to spend a lot of money to Israel for someone who wants to stop them from going HAM.

 

[geniusMoment]

There isn't an answer to this problem. There might have been at one point but that is long gone.

You can't have Israel cutting off water and power to an entire country and bombing them.

But, watch the below interview. He basically says even if there is a ceasefire the second they get the chance Hamas will do another attack like Oct. 7th. How can any nation negotiate with a partner who says that so close to killing 1200 people while holding hundreds hostage? So do you do a ceasefire, releasing all Hamas fighters from prisons in Israel in exchange for the hostages knowing that they will attack you as soon as they can?

It's an impossible situation.

And even if Israel totally eliminates Hamas they have already said they don't want to be in charge after the war in the Gaza Strip. And what are the odds that another organization just as radicalized as Hamas will be elected, and the whole process will start again? 99.99999%

I don't see any solution here.

There is no desire for this, but the only possible solution I could see would be other nations (probably led by the United States) taking on millions of refugees from Palestine while the fight occurs. But, that is political suicide in this environment even if it is the morally right thing to do.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I think US obviously being biased toward Israel stokes the flames of the fire and makes things worse for all sides (except jingoistic Israelis and the people who love them) but it’s way too late to be neutral. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type situation.

 

[geniusMoment]

Even if everything magically ended today how will like 50% of the Gaza Strip even be habitable at this point? You had 2 million people crammed into a tiny area already. Half of it is now rubble. Not just that, but I would imagine all of the water systems have been destroyed. The electrical grid has to be severely damaged.

This is a country without the resources to rebuild. You have a Republican led Congress who will give 0 funding to rebuilding Gaza. How could any president solve this? I understand blaming Biden for not doing more to prevent what is occurring in Gaza right now, but if anyone has a realistic solution I would like to hear it.

Biden proposed a two state solution after Hamas is eliminated, but even that is just a fantasy at this point I would argue. I've seen nothing that leads me to believe that there won't be continued bloodshed between these countries until there isn't a world to fight over.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

He seems to want to spend a lot of money to Israel for someone who wants to stop them from going HAM.

Giving people money is the American answer to every problem. The US has clearly been less supportive of Israel than it has in past conflicts.

I think US obviously being biased toward Israel stokes the flames of the fire and makes things worse for all sides (except jingoistic Israelis and the people who love them) but it’s way too late to be neutral. It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t type situation.

As long as Gaza is run by Hamas the US government is going to side against them because Hamas is a terrorist organization. The people of Gaza (half of them who are under 18 and have never known an election) are totally fucked by this but that's just a fact. Public opinion has been moving against Israel for a long time but as long as Hamas is in charge there will not be any chance of a final step to neutrality.

 

[geniusMoment]

Even if you don't support Israel in this the US has a very strong vested interest in this war not expanding.

The single biggest reason the US sent those aircraft carriers over was to prevent other countries from getting involved. If Iran/Hezbollah etc... thought the US was no longer going to support Israel the chances of a bigger scale war would increase exponentially.

Also, just as an FYI Israel has an estimated 400 Nuclear Warheads. Meaning, we really, really, really don't want this to escalate. We (the entire world) don't want this to go down that path.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

No matter if you stand with Israel or want to Free Palestine, we can all agree it’s messed up we live in a world where Amy Schumer is MLKsplaining an actual daughter of MLK.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

I’m surprised people think Biden was a better president than Clinton. All the stuff you can give Biden credit for is based on the context of the times. It’s a lot easier to hold off on military shit when the vast majority of the population supports that. It was a different time in the 90s. Even in 2002, many democrats voted to go to war in Iraq, Biden included.

Regarding the crime stuff, the country was the safest it has been, as crime was horrifying during the Bush I years and declined every year since Bill came into office. In those instances incarceration will increase, but I find it hard to believe that for-profit prisons didn’t exist before the 1994 crime bill. I don’t know about other negative effects of the crime bill, I guess I need to look into it.

And of course the economy; homeownership was at its highest, unemployment at its lowest, and life was much more affordable for the lowest class. It feels like that will never happen again.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I was going to say Biden being a better POTUS than Clinton was an unpopular sentiment but it looks like they both have the same lowest approval rating (37%). Clinton’s highest approval rating is way higher but tbh, Idk if we will ever see another POTUS climb past a 60% approval rating.


Clinton inherited a much better, easier situation than Biden did. Even the best candidate with the best intentions would have had a mountain to climb coming into the office in January 2021.

Interesting to note that Bill Clinton’s approval rating was the highest after he was impeached. Which seems kind of gross in a 2023 lens? Idk.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

It may be hyperbole to say Biden is a better president than Clinton but I think its very possible when Biden is looked back at from the same distance as Clinton is that he will be seen in a more favourable light. Opinion polls really don't mean much in a historical sense. Richard Nixon was a popular president for the majority of his term. GWB had a 62 average in his first term.

I absolutely stand by saying the longterm consequences of the Clinton years crime bills were disastrous. This is something that basically everyone involved in them has admitted from the lawmakers to the advocates. Tbf getting any crime bill right is incredibly difficult and at the time it was very popular.

The US has 4 percent of the world's population and 22 percent of the world's prison population. I don't think anyone is arguing that violent crime needs to be punished but the way the Clinton legal reforms were done were deeply flawed and only ended up creating a huge burden on society and at best kicking the can further down the road to our generation.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

To make an even more provocative argument, I would say that FDR is probably the last good (and the best) US President while also being the reason that no one since him can measure up. The expansion of both the POTUS's power and America's power in the world under him has meant that it's virtually impossible for any successor to be both a good domestic and foreign policy President.

LBJ was great domestically (the Great Society) and a disaster at foreign policy (Vietnam) for example. Nixon opened up relations which China and ended the Vietnam War (although he had other negative foreign policy actions) but fucked up at home.

And of course Ronnie Reagan Ended Communism and Saved The World.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Clinton’s first term was pretty embattled and he didn’t become really really popular until his 2nd term. He should be grateful that Colin Powell didn’t want to run for POTUS cause he probably would have beat him in ‘96. Dole was probably the worst major party POTUS candidate of my lifetime until 2016. If not the worst then definitely the most boring.

Is it my liberal bias to think that Democratic Presidents stuff done in their second term while Republicans fall apart (Watergate for Nixon, Iran Contra for Reagan, Hurricane Katrina for W).

 

[HarleyQuinn]

5 key races to watch on Election Day

Voters across the country will be heading to the polls Tuesday to weigh in on a slew of statewide and local races, which could provide clues about the national mood ahead of 2024. In Kentuck…

thehill.com

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Maine Question 3, Pine Tree Power Company Initiative (2023)

Ballotpedia: The Encyclopedia of American Politics

ballotpedia.org

There is a big ballot initiative up for a vote here tomorrow RE: whether the State of Maine should own and operate its own power and energy company. It seems like something that has been brewing for 10-20 years.

And of course, the losing side will probably keep it in appeals for another 10-20 years but a lot of excitement and money being poured into this race.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

The elections that are related to abortion I think are important bellweathers for 2024 far more than whats going on with Israel. It's the biggest thing thats driving Dems to vote even in Red states ATM. If the trend continues and Biden and the National Dems can focus in on that he'd pick up some votes. Do I have confidence they can do that? Not really.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1721493194410529263

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds to endorse Ron DeSantis for president Monday as Donald Trump fumes

Reynolds’ endorsement is a huge win for DeSantis, who hopes to harness her star power among Iowa Republicans as he looks to catch up with Trump.

www.desmoinesregister.com

That sound reverberating is empty Diet Coke cans being kicked around the room.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

That's some serious star power. An endorsement from an IOWA Governor.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I mean it is the biggest endorsement he can get but it doesn’t matter much. Look at how many notable Republicans endorsed Trump’s opponents and/or didn’t endorse Trump in 2016 until it became inevitable.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

i dont know what it says that dems are doing well in the elections tonight and on ballot issues at least ATM but the enthusiasm for 2024 is so shit. does it mean they can be rallied? are the polls deceptive? or is biden just that cooked?

 

[geniusMoment]

Very good night for Democrats. Very bad night for polls.

My boy Andy winning a 2nd term as Gov. of Kentucky is a sign that even in red states Democrats can win.

 

[snuffbox]

I think it's at least possible that these scare polls are deceptive. The media doing the polling and reporting thereof might be skewing them in ways to avoid looking wrong like they were (slightly) in 2016. They have definitely spent the last 7 years throwing their collective back out trying to normalize Trump and his political party.

 

[Gert]

Wins for abortion rights and legal marijuana in Ohio tonight. The vote no signage was too much disinformation about protecting kids, even more than you would expect in todays political climate.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Even Mississippi had a competitive gubernatorial race!

I think Democrats efforts to quell the bleeding in rural America might have a good long term effect but they have a long road ahead of them.

 

[Gary]

One of the reasons Bashear won last night is because he ran as (and is) a moderate who is ultimately unthreatening and comes off as likeable. Cameron just came off as an asshole, and attacking teachers likely backfired on him.

Wins for abortion rights and legal marijuana in Ohio tonight. The vote no signage was too much disinformation about protecting kids, even more than you would expect in todays political climate.

I want to point another thing out-Cameron ran a really transphobic campaign under the guise of "protecting the children". The GOP tried this last year and it backfired, and it failed here too. Trying to scare people over the LGBTQ community doesn't have the same power it once had, and eventually it will largely be abandoned because most people don't care about that shit-they care more about how they are going to feed their kids.

Hell, look at how the fight over abortion. Even Trump knew that the GOP was alienating people and going too far, yet some of them criticized him when-whoops-he turned out to be kinda right. Right now, the party keeps losing due to the focus on culture war bullshit, but moderates and independents (aka the people they need to win over) don't like hearing about that. If you can't get new voters and keep relying on a failing strategy, things ain't going your way.