Dark Side of the Ring

[Master Thrasher]

They should bring back Brawl For All in Hell In A Cell between Russo and Cornette.

 

[One Epic Winter (OEW)]

The Russo/Cornette stuff is beyond old but the episode was good otherwise. Getting Bart's side of things was cool and Godfather was entertaining. It was also nice seeing Droz again.

 

[Youth N Asia]

Every time I saw Bart Gunn I kept thinking that's what Orton is going to look like in 15-20 years

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Very entertaining episode although the Russo/Cornette stuff was stupid shit as usual. Getting Bart's insight was great although JR felt like an add-on, which was unfortunate.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Butterbean saying that Bart Gunn should've done the wild brawling style must eat Gunn up a little bit more.

 

[Brocklock]

The mental image of Godfather and Gillberg smoking weed while Butterbean discusses the Bart Gunn fight with them before Wrestlemania XV is pretty hilarious.

Never knew Bart and Butterbean almost had an MMA fight a couple years later. Bart Gunn, Droz, Butterbean, Dlo, and Godfather all came off well. Godfather was pretty hilarious while Bart and Droz came off like the nicest guys. Big Bean is always entertaining too and he was right as Bart definitely had a better shot if he would've tried to brawl.

 

[OG]

I'm amazed how well Droz came off. Absolutely no bitterness about anything. Enjoyed that overall.

 

[One Epic Winter (OEW)]

Next week's episode is Jimmy Snuka and the murder of his girlfriend

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7xehMFZbtM&feature=emb_title

 

[BruiserBrody]

IIRC Jules Strongbow's take was Nancy was a ring rat who had been with a few of the guys. Jules was at the hotel when Snuka got arrested (Snuka rode with Muraco IIRC, who was in a blood feud with him). Jules saw the sirens and lights, closed the curtains and read the paper.

I'm not sure I buy his story totally, because he still has that "telephone...tell a wrestler..."-ness about him where he likes hearing dirt and whatnot and isn't shy on condemning his co-workers boozing and drugging. (Jules didn't really even drink and wound up doing Jay Strongbow's paperwork for him, until Vince Sr found out. He gave Jules a weekly bonus for doing Jay's agent work.)

 

[Gert]

So between watching the Brawl for All episode, plus accompanying podcasts with Cornette and JR, I think they are both full of shit in regards to Dr. Death being a main event guy and Russo costing the WWF millions.

Timeline wise the Austin-Taker feud was going to go all the way to Summerslam and while the September PPV was a Austin-Kane-Taker 3 way and October PPV was Taker-Kane with Austin as a ref; perhaps Austin-Dr. Death could have been a fall program, but short of just inserting him right into a program with Austin I think Dr. Death was totally washed and probably would have looked bad in any summer program before going into an Austin feud.

And with Dr. Death not being a WWF guy, I have a hard time believing he would be inserted right into a main event feud.

 

[OG]

So between watching the Brawl for All episode, plus accompanying podcasts with Cornette and JR, I think they are both full of shit in regards to Dr. Death being a main event guy and Russo costing the WWF millions.

Timeline wise the Austin-Taker feud was going to go all the way to Summerslam and while the September PPV was a Austin-Kane-Taker 3 way and October PPV was Taker-Kane with Austin as a ref; perhaps Austin-Dr. Death could have been a fall program, but short of just inserting him right into a program with Austin I think Dr. Death was totally washed and probably would have looked bad in any summer program before going into an Austin feud.

And with Dr. Death not being a WWF guy, I have a hard time believing he would be inserted right into a main event feud.

On top of all that, just in general, Dr. Death doesn't exactly strike me as a main eventer in the Attitude era, not by look or character. I can't picture it at all.

 

[909]

These guys who think Dr. Death could have drawn for them are outright insane. He was one of the worst promos ever.

If they changed anything about the main event picture in the fall of 98, Vince would have lost.

 

[Youth N Asia]

I wouldn’t have bought Williams as a main event guy. I mostly knew him as an old timer at this point. The more JR talks the worst his opinions seem to get.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

I feel the same way as you guys do about Dr. Death in the Attitude era. But I know shortly after that era that various rasslin journos said the whole tournament was built around giving Williams credibility as a tough guy before making him a main event heel. As bad an idea as that might have been, it sounds like there was a legit backstage plan to have that happen.

 

[Valeyard]

Doc wouldn't been a top TV heel. Austin would get the big shows with Taker and Kane or whoever but at the same time Doc would be the threat he'd have on TV that would get DQ'd. Maybe a never-ending feud with Shamrock or Blackman, and rule the hardcore division. Ceiiling would be he in a team with Shamrock/Blackman/Severn that would just be around to fill a spot and get buried on the mic by the Outlaws.

 

[Brocklock]

Dr. Death was also 38 and peaked physically around 4 or 5 years earlier. I read they were also interested in him in 1995 as an opponent for Diesel. That would've worked better for him than the attitude era and he had more allies around like Cowboy Bill Watts.

 

[Valeyard]

Doc in 95 would've been fucking great. He could've had good matches across the board.

 

[Baby Shoes]

Yeah, Dr. Death as a monster against Diesel feels like it fits better than against Stone Cold. I do remember reading when Dr. Death was signed the plan was for him to go on to Austin and everything, I just didn’t know enough.

I think those of us who collected the action figures remember Dr. Death getting fast-tracked into the line and then due to all this, being one of the biggest shelf warmers (along with the Jacqueline figure release around the same time).

I was behind on this but New Jack’s episode may be one of my favorites. Wasn’t a topic beaten into the ground like Season One stuff and there were some bits I did find out about in greater detail.

Brawl for All was a solid episode but nothing really new. Interesting to hear Bart’s take. Good to see Droz seemingly being as happy as he can be. Not surprised they shoehorned his injury into this.

Not sure if anyone is watching that After Dark. The first one was awful because the host brought in some other comedian mark friend that was pointless. The New Jack one and Brawl for All have been decent sticking to a panel of people in the business. I probably would cancel the recording already but they usually feature at least one extra scene cut from the show, so I feel those are usually semi-worthwhile.

 

[Valeyard]

There's so much Doc could do in 95 that I'm very sad he didn't come in. Diesel match, plus Bret, plus Shawn, and I think he could've been the guy to make ultra deadman Taker work. Give Doc the Mabel push and a mouthpiece and it gets crazy fun. Even more perfect world is if Savage stays and Doc comes in, but that's veering into fantasy booking.

New Jack is goddamn insane but he's by far one of the most entertaining guys ever. WWE were crazy not to have him be the guy who stabbed Cena that one time, just for the stories.

 

[Master Thrasher]

If you think about it Austin only worked with Foley, Taker, HHH, and The Rock.

 

[909]

Greg Valentine just said that Vince paid $80,000 to the authorities to have Snuka's murder case forgotten about.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

My problem with Dr. Death being seen as a potential draw is that half of the audience by that point had just started watching in last year. Where was Doc in 1997? His biggest North American date was a loss to Raven in ECW, which was geared toward smart marks that watched JCP/AJPW/Mid-South/etc. Your average WWF fan probably didn't give a shit about Steve Williams in an era, let alone even know who he was, in 1998.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Greg Valentine just said that Vince paid $80,000 to the authorities to have Snuka's murder case forgotten about.

Wrong scandal. Valentine was talking about hauling hash on a plane while on tour of Israel. IIRC this is the incident that finally got Snuka canned. Greg might be conflating events, or BSing.

 

[BruiserBrody]

My problem with Dr. Death being seen as a potential draw is that half of the audience by that point had just started watching in last year. Where was Doc in 1997? His biggest North American date was a loss to Raven in ECW, which was geared toward smart marks that watched JCP/AJPW/Mid-South/etc. Your average WWF fan probably didn't give a shit about Steve Williams in an era, let alone even know who he was, in 1998.

The counter argument to this that it is a promotion's job to get people to care about you, regardless of your past. Mick Foley also peaked out working in front of 1100 fans in a bingo hall in 1995, and then wound up debuting in the Taker feud. His previous national runs were for a creatively bankrupt WCW who squandered his main event push by giving him a silly amnesia gimmick, then blowing the Vader feud off on syndication while Bobby Heenan made jokes. Foley also moonlighted in the Smoky Mountains helping a mentally disabled goof and his cat overcome his oppressors. Foley even explains in his book how he feared Vince was going to make him the next goofy monster, instead of the layered gimmick he was allowed to develop.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/Adam_N_Yeary/status/1250255684807032832

 

[Valeyard]

I always heard part of the reason Snuka didn't get charged was Vince pulling the kayfabe card. "He's a wild man from the islands, he didn't know what he was doing," kinda shit, with some cash on top (or mob ties, depending on who where you read it) to make it all go away. But I appreciate everyone being in agreement that in no uncertain terms he killed her, but they couldn't prove it.

 

[909]

The coroner proved it though.

 

[Valeyard]

I just mean how you had people like his wife or Muraco and everyone else just saying he did it without saying he did it, if that makes sense. Just was common knowledge even before the autopsy results.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Matt Farmer mentioned that only a few months after killing his gf, Snuka was arrested for beating the hell out of his wife.

 

[One Epic Winter (OEW)]

Watched the Jimmy Snuka episode. Some really fucked up shit that really made me think of other scummy WWE stories that got swept under the rug. I'll be surprised if the Pat Patterson Ring Boy scandal or Mel Phillips aren't subjects next season.