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Final Fantasy XIII

Conspiracy_Victim

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Kageho said:
Conspiracy_Victim said:
Eh no problem Kageho. I just try to keep what I read on the internet to 200 words or less. After that my attention starts wandering.
As Andrew said, if you actually skip the non-FF stuff, the article Tim wrote actually was a good thing.

In a nut shell, FFXIII does a lot of things right or so he says. It streamlines the process, in which you are always going forward, never looking back. While the linear progression is a bit of a downer to those who like the free style of say GTA, it allowed them to make it possible to strengthen the storyline and characterization. The problem though is you never get to actually see the wonderful world Square built for the game. Which sounds like a drag, because I like exploring the worlds that people create.

Tim goes on to say that its probably the strongest characterization of the entire series. Lightning is apparently the hero we've always wanted. She's got all the good parts of the best characters in the series, yet none of the down side. Which is awesome for me, because I've been wanting that for a very long time. I want a hero who's a fucking hero. Snow comes off as a naive, "I will protect you" but the longer you go, the more he becomes well, likeable. Shit, I forgot the guy's name, but the fellow with the chocobo in his hair is actually us, if you will. He's the only normal guy amongst the cast, so you'll relate with him easily.

He does say though that the story is different than it actually doesn't explain anything. Like you'll be tossed phrases and words at the beginning of the game without any explanation, only for it to be explained later in the story and you are going "ok... Why is this guy worried about it?" till you get to the point that its explained. Its sorta hit or miss with what works, but I hate having everything explained right at the beginning or having a character explain it to someone who should know what the fuck it is, ya know?

Battles are interesting because of the Phantasm Shift (I think I got the word wrong but screw it). Basically anyone can do any job, but you need to shift them from one to the other. And battles aren't really that easy. Sure, they are when you know what you are doing, but still you can't putz around. And its still the same ol' ATB, just fancied up. The only downside is that you don't get access to all the battle mechanics right away, because Square's afraid you won't know what to do.

That's more or less it in a nut shell. He went on to say that there are times that you get to watch them do something cool but you can't do that, but other than that, that's about it. Well that and the graphics are probably still some of the best he's seen out of any game.

So overall, its got some interesting stuff, but probably be one of the middle packed liked games.

Oh, I read it, I just thought he tried to make it "quirky" and "accessible" and it ended up "annoying" and "overly long". If you're going to be sarcastic like Yahtzee cool, I think he's hilarious. If you want to put in some of your own experiences about a game, fine. Personal experiences determine your score for a game as a critic. I just didn't see why he felt the need to overanalyze every single facet of the game until it became the equivalent a droning buzzing sound in your ear. The preview could have been much more succinct and still made it's point. Whether that's the boss's fault for assigning him too long an article for a game that he can't spoil without pissing people off, Tim's fault for not begin able to write an article without suffering from "aren't I cool?" smugness, or his editor's fault for not cutting half the superfluous crap out and telling him to get to the point, I don't know.
 

Kageho

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Ah ok... I thought most people didn't read it, therefore I thought I'd give a summary. My bad. Should've said that.

Though I do get your point.
 

Obi Chris Kenobi

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Eastern RPGs are all interchangable in some aspects, the storylines and presentation of Lost Odessey, Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant, etc could all be one game.
 

AndrewTS

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Obi Chris Kenobi said:
Eastern RPGs are all interchangable in some aspects, the storylines and presentation of Lost Odessey, Infinite Undiscovery, Last Remnant, etc could all be one game.

Too often the titles are too. How do I lose an odyssey? How does one un-discover something, let alone infinitely? I guess un-discovering it is losing it, but it still tells you jack.

At least Remnants are artifacts important to the plot within the games, like ARMs.

Blue Dragon could just as easily be Blue Minotaur or Blue Phoenix or whatever.
 

Conspiracy_Victim

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That reminds me, I need to get back in to Infinite Undiscovery. I found a limitless money exploit and got distracted by it until I lost interest and went to other games. Should get back in to it, it wasn't really that bad.
 

Damaramu

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AndrewTS said:
There's other games where the DLC is a bit more substantial story-wise, such as Prince of Persia, but honestly don't add much to the game and are worth skipping over.

If you're hesitant to buy a new game where DLC is almost a must (a Bethesda game, for instance), I say wait on a GOTY edition or retail release for the expansion to be announced.

I just bought the new Prince of Persia. Shit.

I played Oblivion without it being a Game of the Year edition and I had a great time. I didn't think it was a must for that game, what the hell did I miss?

Part of my problem is the fact that my X-Box 360 is in the front of the house and my computer and modem are in the very back. I'd need one hell of a long ether-net cable to even get the damn thing online. Unlike my Wii where I have that Wi-Fi dongle or whatever it's called. But I haven't loaded that up and gotten on virtual console in over a year either.
 

AndrewTS

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Damaramu said:
AndrewTS said:
There's other games where the DLC is a bit more substantial story-wise, such as Prince of Persia, but honestly don't add much to the game and are worth skipping over.

If you're hesitant to buy a new game where DLC is almost a must (a Bethesda game, for instance), I say wait on a GOTY edition or retail release for the expansion to be announced.

I just bought the new Prince of Persia. Shit.

Don't worry, like I said, it's worth skipping over. I didn't get it either, but Anya bought it and said it sucked.

I actually haven't gotten to the Oblivion expansion packs myself. :p However, you're "missing" Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine. You can either a) buy them as separate discs, or b) buy the Game of the Year edition Oblivion, load the expansion content onto the hard drive from the disc, and trade in your original Oblivion.
 

Damaramu

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AndrewTS said:
Damaramu said:
AndrewTS said:
There's other games where the DLC is a bit more substantial story-wise, such as Prince of Persia, but honestly don't add much to the game and are worth skipping over.

If you're hesitant to buy a new game where DLC is almost a must (a Bethesda game, for instance), I say wait on a GOTY edition or retail release for the expansion to be announced.

I just bought the new Prince of Persia. Shit.

Don't worry, like I said, it's worth skipping over. I didn't get it either, but Anya bought it and said it sucked.

I actually haven't gotten to the Oblivion expansion packs myself. :p However, you're "missing" Shivering Isles and Knights of the Nine. You can either a) buy them as separate discs, or b) buy the Game of the Year edition Oblivion, load the expansion content onto the hard drive from the disc, and trade in your original Oblivion.

I have so many other games I need to play and catch up on (like 8 just on the 360 alone, throw in the Wii and that goes into double digits) and I finished most of Oblivion well over 2 years ago. So I'm done with it. I'll just wait for the next one whenever that will be.
I had the third one for the X-Box but I hardly played it as much as Oblivion. Weird.

Now how to get my 360 that's in the very front of the house hooked up with the internet that's in the very back of the house...
 

Damaramu

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Obi Chris Kenobi said:
Damaramu said:
Now how to get my 360 that's in the very front of the house hooked up with the internet that's in the very back of the house...

HAMMER TIME!

Do what?

I don't want to actually play online. You only need the free membership for DLC right?
 

Damaramu

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Yeah, but I'd need a 200 ft. cable just to hook the bitch up.

And sorry for hijacking the thread, but how much does most DLC cost anyway? I don't even know if I'd want it for the games I'm playing right now. Of course I may just hook it up just to get the arcade. Plus I may want to do a system update at this point....
 

Sabre

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Damaramu said:
Yeah, but I'd need a 200 ft. cable just to hook the bitch up.

And sorry for hijacking the thread, but how much does most DLC cost anyway? I don't even know if I'd want it for the games I'm playing right now. Of course I may just hook it up just to get the arcade. Plus I may want to do a system update at this point....

The latest games come with the updates on disk.
 

Damaramu

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Oh sweet. Then I don't need it to update. But I am buying GTA IV soon, figure I might want all the DLC for that right?
 

Obi Chris Kenobi

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Damaramu said:
Oh sweet. Then I don't need it to update. But I am buying GTA IV soon, figure I might want all the DLC for that right?

Get Storys from Liberty City, that has the main game and the two DLCs with it :D
 

Damaramu

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Obi Chris Kenobi said:
Damaramu said:
Oh sweet. Then I don't need it to update. But I am buying GTA IV soon, figure I might want all the DLC for that right?

Get Storys from Liberty City, that has the main game and the two DLCs with it :D

It has the main GTA IV? Sweet. I may never leave my living room after that. lol
 

Obi Chris Kenobi

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Damaramu said:
Obi Chris Kenobi said:
Damaramu said:
Oh sweet. Then I don't need it to update. But I am buying GTA IV soon, figure I might want all the DLC for that right?

Get Storys from Liberty City, that has the main game and the two DLCs with it :D

It has the main GTA IV? Sweet. I may never leave my living room after that. lol

Ah wait, might just be stand alone versions of the DLC now I think about it.
 

Mik

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Sabre, you're slipping. I'd have figured you'd be half way through a stolen copy of this by now.
 

vivisectvi

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Obi Chris Kenobi said:
Surprised Dubq hasn't imported one to test his Japanese!

Heh, not even close to being good enough to get through a FF game! I need to expand my kanji vocab a few hundred characters before I can do something like that. :p
 

AndrewTS

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A much better article about FFXIII:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/26643/Analysis_The_Conundrum_of_Final_Fantasy_XIII.php\

The story is paced a lot more deliberately than pretty much every RPG I've played, sharing more with action games -- a gate-and-trigger system, with tripwires for events and set enemy placement. This time around, story is delivered in-line as you explore, both through spoken asides (which don't interrupt your exploration) and through lots of short cutscenes.

In fact, the dungeon / boss / cutscene paradigm has been shattered into bits; regular battles are tougher, more engaging, and less frequent -- though there are still bosses -- and cutscenes come much more frequently but are typically much shorter than in the past, spreading out the three core concepts behind the FFXIII gameplay more evenly.
....
If you ever stop and think about it, you inevitably realize, while playing an RPG, that the gameplay is repetitive and you're just following a ruleset. To stop you from having time to think about that, the developers have ratcheted the combat speed way up. Things fall into a kind of call-and-response; rather than formulate a strategy for each encounter, you've got an overarching strategy you're always pursuing (force the enemies into a "break" status, where they become more vulnerable to attacks) while dealing with what's happening from moment to moment.

Character growth and class systems feed into this -- you shift your entire party build on the fly by pushing the L1 button, a "Paradigm Shift" which changes the entire party's classes at once -- the Job System on speed. Managing growth outside of battle, of course, is slow, and is saved for when you have time to breathe.

And of course, visuals play a huge role. I think in some ways, enjoying the art direction for Final Fantasy is pretty much requisite to being a fan of the series (I'd be interested to hear if others agree.) The environments are both more gorgeous and wantonly unrealistic than they have ever been.
...
There are plenty of things the game doesn't do -- and while these are rather deliberately chosen, weighing how important they are to the core experience is what counts in an analysis.

Most notably, Final Fantasy XIII does not have towns. These have long been an accepted reality of the RPG. Every prior game in the series has had them. As of 10 hours, I have not seen one. The game is a series of dungeons interlinked by transitional cutscenes -- for example, your party will reach the end of a dungeon, discover an aircraft, steal it, and then crash it and continue on foot. The only respite is the story. Save points handle shopping and equipment upgrades.

My question is: do I miss them? As a JRPG veteran, the answer is a surprising no, I think. It's a move I anticipated after playing the streamlined Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII on the PSP, though I did expect a hub (and I think it's forthcoming.)

Towns have been a huge weakness of the genre; while they helped with pacing, they were also deadly dull to explore, particularly as games scaled up. Creating the assets for a town believable in the context of a current generation cast of characters is not a small undertaking. I'm sure that had a lot to do with the fact they're not here.

But just as importantly, I'm thinking towns were jettisoned because they get in the way of the designers' control of the narrative and pace of the game: and their removal is a symbolic lifting of the curtain. Final Fantasy XIII is surprisingly open about its control of the player's experience.

Also, a somewhat more critical preview: http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/final-fantasy-xiii-japanese-retail-hands-on?page=1

Once you're given access to the Crystarium you are free to develop your characters by spending the points you've accrued through battles to purchase new abilities, upgrade health points and so on. There appears to be little scope for personal expression here: you simply pick one of the two or three new abilities next on offer in the character development tree until your points are gone. So while the set-up feels like an amalgam of previous Final Fantasy battle systems, it's still hard to say just how successful the hotch-potch design has been over the long haul.

After our first five hours with the Japanese version of Final Fantasy XIII, it's still hard to say how successful the game's skew-whiff approach has been in general. For players who saw Yasumi Matsuno's Final Fantasy XII as a creative and interesting exploration of how the aged JRPG format could shift into something contemporary and fresh, the thirteenth game seems sure to be a crushing disappointment. In many ways it emphasises those elements that so many Western gamers hate about the genre (viewed ungenerously, you could say that Square-Enix has spent a million dollars in clothing Sophie Houlden's 'The Linear RPG' in fancy graphics and orchestras).

But for those players who felt disorientated by the twelfth game's bold approach (and that pretty much includes all of Japan, who disliked the game's diversions from the JRPG hymn sheet), Final Fantasy XIII's withdrawal into tradition will be most welcome. Whether that makes for a good videogame or not, still remains to be seen.
 

ericmm

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Bah, I really liked what FFXII did.

I'm sure I'll still play this, however.
 

Star Ocean 2

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Has any other RPG been put under the microscope as much as this one before its release? All I knew about FF9 when it came out was "the crystal comes back."
 

AndrewTS

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Star Ocean 2 said:
Has any other RPG been put under the microscope as much as this one before its release? All I knew about FF9 when it came out was "the crystal comes back."

I'd argue XII was, too. Remember that it was massively delayed (just like XIII), had gone through several different lead designers (unliked FFXIII) , and did away with the traditional ATB system (while XIII still has it in some form, it's been changed a lot).

However, it seems a key point to keep in mind that is FFXIII, and perhaps future main-series FF games, may be no longer RPGs as we know them.
 

Kageho

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Considering that they are probably moving Final Fantasy outside of Japan for the next installment, I don't doubt that they would be highly different.

Honestly though I would kill for a Final Fantasy that set kinda like Dragon Ages in terms of when it takes place.

The more I hear about it, the more it seems a lot like its got a lot of great concept, it just happens to fail on delivery. That could be a good thing or bad thing. I think I'll wait till I hear more from one of you guys on the series and then decide if I should be or not when it comes out in our lands.
 

Obi Chris Kenobi

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I think they think that what makes Final Fantasy 'Final Fantasy' is the pseudo future/Steam Punk settings tied into medievil customs and culture. Personally, I'm not bothered, I'd love a Medievil themed FF game.
 

Damaramu

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I never played FFXII but I detest MMO's and anything that feels like one. And that's what I hear it's like. Plus I hated XI and I don't know how different or similar they are in reality.
Funny, that's the first FF I've skipped. But I may skip XIII too because my patience wears thin these days. *sigh* and I used to have so much fun with these games.
I did like X though.....

Then again I did like Oblivion and such, but I don't find that similar to an MMO like some people.
 
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