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Hamas attacks Israel, 100s dead

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Arguing about what type of bombs Israel is dropping on Palestinian hospitals feels like the debate about beheaded babies we had a month or so back tbh. Getting trapped in semantics is easier than processing the horrible reality, I guess.
 

tekcop

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Yeah. I shouldn't have said "carpet." But I really don't care. Human shields, blah blah blah. Israel's been the aggressor for years. None of this matters.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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I just don’t know where the compromise is. In my mind, I see Hamas and Netenyahu as two people holding lit matches in rooms covered with gasoline. There are no negotiations with unreasonable people.
 

cobainwasmurdered

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Arguing about what type of bombs Israel is dropping on Palestinian hospitals feels like the debate about beheaded babies we had a month or so back tbh. Getting trapped in semantics is easier than processing the horrible reality, I guess.
Arguing the difference between Carpet bombing and what Israel is doing is doing isn't semantics though. Carpet bombing is literally the saturation bombing of one small area with the intent of destroying everything in it. That's what happened in World War 2 and Vietnam. It's the difference between Hundreds of thousands of dead people and hundreds. If Israel was Carpet bombing then they'd have no support.

Yeah. I shouldn't have said "carpet." But I really don't care. Human shields, blah blah blah. Israel's been the aggressor for years. None of this matters.
Again what is the solution? How do you fight Hamas? What do you consider an acceptable method of fighting Israel? That isn't intended as a gotcha because you know how I feel about this whole mess but a serious question.

I just don’t know where the compromise is. In my mind, I see Hamas and Netenyahu as two people holding lit matches in rooms covered with gasoline. There are no negotiations with unreasonable people.
There is no compromise. Hamas wants Israel destroyed and its people dead. Israel wants Hamas destroyed and the far-right wants all of Gaza destroyed.
 

cobainwasmurdered

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What its always been. Israel goes in and kills a bunch of people, gets stuck in a quagmire, declares victory, Hamas or a similar organization gradually rebuilds and attacks resume with increasing severity until Israel goes back in. Also including Israel doing a bunch of dumb shit that makes the situation worse etc.
 

snuffbox

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I'd like to think there is a solution. There have been times when, with empathetic leadership making genuine efforts, it seemed to be potentially close at hand. But those moments, I think, all came before the rise of the Internet and, I fear, that so many people's choices to lean into online-ness might be the thing that keeps us from even getting close again. I prefer to keep some hope (if only for my own mental health) but am aware this remains almost certainly a blind and fruitless optimism.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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I don’t get why a cease fire for hostages exchange can’t happen but I am just a simple minded semi professional comedian and not an expert in international diplomacy.
 

snuffbox

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I don’t get why a cease fire for hostages exchange can’t happen but I am just a simple minded semi professional comedian and not an expert in international diplomacy.

Getting at some of that isn't so much being an expert in international diplomacy as it is taking a willful trip into some very dark, awful places. And those places are the heads and hearts of leaders who lack some basic humanity. Often, we can only know some of these details by looking at the past. For example, Lyndon Johnson's reasons for escalating the Vietnam War...dumb horrorshow bullshit like "if ah could just get Ho Chi Minh in the room and talk turkey with him." For all his personal empathy, depth of experience, etc, he was missing and/or blind to some basic things that led to a cost of hundreds of thousands of lives. And, yes, CWM was right, we did carpet bomb southeast Asia and, no, it never does any good to pretend something like that is happening when/where it's not out of a desire to be right (or, frankly, any reason at all). Like a getaway car, nothing good starts with that.

Understanding why leaders don't take some obvious and good steps means trying to understand the inner workings of sick, or at least deeply lacking, people. And the more time I spend trying to think about these things, the more time I end up spending hunched over the toilet.
 

cobainwasmurdered

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I don’t get why a cease fire for hostages exchange can’t happen but I am just a simple minded semi professional comedian and not an expert in international diplomacy.

I'm no expert but I think it is pretty obvious Hamas doesn't want a ceasefire or to give up the hostages. Their attitude can be at least partly encapsulated by the above link. Their goal with the attack on October 7th was to provoke Israel into launching attacks on Gaza that would kill civilians which would then hopefully create new support for Hamas and kill the treaties Israel is making with the wider Middle East. Hamas has not allowed an election since coming to power 16 years ago. They need the violence to continue to hold on.

On the other side Bibi needs the violence to continue because he was already massively unpopular before the attack. Now as soon as the fighting ends he's finished. He'll be out of power and almost assuredly finally sent to prison. He needs to keep killing Palestinians for as long as possible to hold on to power.

No one in charge actually wants this to end. The actual average citizens are the ones who suffer.
 

SFH

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I've been in heavy declutter and reorganize mode. I found a ball cap that I was given at some point in the last few decades. It's from the Israelie Consulate general and has a Menorah logo. I'm not sure exactly what to do with this information but pretty sure I need to get it out of my home.

Any takers?
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Incandenza

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Unless Biden changes course, I'm done. I'm not voting for him. I can't hold my nose and vote for someone actively endorsing genocide. I will vote in every other thing on this year's ballot, but I won't do so for him.
 

Mickey Massuco

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When an American foreign aid worker can get killed by a foreign government and the standing president pretty much says it was okay…yeah, I can see why a lot of red blooded Americans would have a problem with that.

And people like Hillary telling undecided libs to get over their concerns…man, pretty easy to see why you lost. How can a lifelong politician be so bad at basic PR?
 
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