Joker Spinoff Spectacular

[Brocklock]

I'm just here to see one of the best actors alive doing his thing and playing one of the best comic characters, so I don't care about all this extraneous stuff.

 

[909]

Starship Troopers is also a hilarious takedown of right wing fascist ideas. So I'm confused right now.

 

[Brocklock]

Starship Troopers is also a hilarious takedown of right wing fascist ideas. So I'm confused right now.

Yeah lol. Starship Troopers was complete satire and it wasn't hard to pick up on it.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Starship Troopers is also a hilarious takedown of right wing fascist ideas. So I'm confused right now.

The only thing wrong with the Starship Troopers movie is that it didn't have much of anything to do with the novel it took its title from.

 

[Gary]

Starship Troopers is also a hilarious takedown of right wing fascist ideas. So I'm confused right now.

The only thing wrong with the Starship Troopers movie is that it didn't have much of anything to do with the novel it took its title from.

The original "RoboCop" and (I think) "Total Recall" are also dark satires of those kinds of ideologies. "RoboCop" in particular is a critique of Reaganomics, the Cold War and Reagan era politics in general, while both that and "Recall" tackle themes of class struggle and oppression.

Also, I don't know if the novel "Starship Troopers" would've been as good as the movie. There's just something about the dark humor and it's understanding of how and why fascism is appealing to some people that makes the movie better IMO.

 

[Gary]

As for "Joker": people misinterpreting movies is unfortunately nothing new. Look at how many dudes who love "Taxi Driver", "Goodfellas" and "Fight Club" and completely miss the point of them. Hell, "Fight Club" is a book and movie that's making fun of dumb meatheads. It's not the creators fault that some don't realize this.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Starship Troopers is also a hilarious takedown of right wing fascist ideas. So I'm confused right now.

The only thing wrong with the Starship Troopers movie is that it didn't have much of anything to do with the novel it took its title from.

The original "RoboCop" and (I think) "Total Recall" are also dark satires of those kinds of ideologies. "RoboCop" in particular is a critique of Reaganomics, the Cold War and Reagan era politics in general, while both that and "Recall" tackle themes of class struggle and oppression.

Also, I don't know if the novel "Starship Troopers" would've been as good as the movie. There's just something about the dark humor and it's understanding of how and why fascism is appealing to some people that makes the movie better IMO.

FWIW, I read the book, before I saw the movie. IIRC, Neumeier's original screenplay didn't necessarily have anything to do with the book, that it was more or less suggested to him that attaching his project to the novel might help him get it produced (since some people noticed some superficial similarities), and that Verhoeven hadn't even read the book, before agreeing to direct and that, when he tried to reading it, he only got a couple chapters into it, before putting it down. So Starship Troopers might be a good movie, but it's not really a Starship Troopers movie, kinda like Logan is a very good movie, but it's not particularly an X-Men movie.

I believe that something similar happened with this Joker movie: the director's own comments have led me to believe that the only reason why this movie is called Joker is because that's what his advisers convinced him he had to do, in order to get his project funded. That, if he could have done this same movie without any attachment to DC Comics, in any way, shape or form, he would have. And, honestly, if the movie wasn't called Joker, and they didn't name-drop Gotham, and he didn't wear the wig or the facepaint, but everything else in the trailer happened exactly the same, nobody would come away from that trailer thinking that it was supposed to be about the Joker.

@909, maybe. I'll stipulate that I may have watched the trailer "wrong"; perhaps it was one of those, "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail"-type of things. But, to me, that trailer came across like the movie was written by somebody who watched Falling Down, and thought that Michael Douglas' character was the hero.

 

[909]

@909, maybe. I'll stipulate that I may have watched the trailer "wrong"; perhaps it was one of those, "When you're a hammer, everything looks like a nail"-type of things. But, to me, that trailer came across like the movie was written by somebody who watched Falling Down, and thought that Michael Douglas' character was the hero.[/color]

I think this is the avenue they had to use to get people in the theater. Because, for some reason anyway, a lot of people like Joker for what he actually is instead of because he's a great foil to Batman. There are some reviews out there if you don't mind spoilers.

 

[Baby Shoes]

The Army sent a memo out to its members warning them to be aware of violence outbreaks at screenings of this film and to be aware of all entrances and exits in their theatre.

The theatre that had the Dark Knight Rises shooting in Aurora will not be screening the film.

Several theatres are banning some or all of masks, face paint and costumes for audience members.

 

[KOAB]

We didn’t make the movie to push buttons,” Phillips told TheWrap’s Sharon Waxman in an interview last Friday about the filmmaking process. “I literally described to Joaquin at one point in those three months as like, ‘Look at this as a way to sneak a real movie in the studio system under the guise of a comic book film’. It wasn’t, ‘We want to glorify this behavior.’ It was literally like ‘Let’s make a real movie with a real budget and we’ll call it f–ing Joker’. That’s what it was. “

https://www.thewrap.com/joker-director-todd-phillips-rebuffs-criticism-of-dark-tone-we-didnt-make-the-movie-to-push-buttons-exclusive/

 

[BUTT]

Reviving the moral panic reserved for Mortal Kombat and Marilyn Manson in the 90s for a highbrow comic book movie but now it's adult men we're worried about being driven to violence by the subversive entertainment. Culture in the Trump era is truly off the wall.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

If you're going to get violent over a guy wearing clown makeup then you're not an adult.

 

[The Amazing Rando]

If you're going to get violent over a guy wearing clown makeup then you're not an adult.

I think if you get violent over someone in clown makeup that means you're The 70s Guy Mike Awesome.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Addendum:
If you're going to get violent over a guy wearing clown makeup, and you never had a GOAT mullet, then you're not an adult.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I'm shocked that people on Twitter are shocked that Todd Phillips is decrying PC culture and SJWs ruining comedy in the press junkets for this film. I'm SHOCKED SHOCKED I TELL YA that the guy who directed The Hangover trilogy and got his career start making a hagiography of GG Allin is anti-wokeness

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

lol.

The whole outcry around this movie was created partly by the director and studio as a marketing ploy and (mostly) by the media. It's very hard not to be cynical about it all.

Still looking forward to the flick though!

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Reviving the moral panic reserved for Mortal Kombat and Marilyn Manson in the 90s for a highbrow comic book movie but now it's adult men we're worried about being driven to violence by the subversive entertainment.

All of those teenage boys who got wound up over Marilyn Manson grew up but didn't stop getting so easily wound up. We truly are all stars now in the dope show.

I really want to want to see this movie but Joaquin Phoenix in the trailer looks way too much like a skeevy, rapey comic I know. So I guess good job to him and the costume department. :-\ :-\ :-\

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/vicenews/status/1179877094651760640
Watch out for incels this weekend, TRTSM

Spoiler

TRTSM watching for incels

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Really great film in a Requiem For a Dream kind of way. It's definitely a tough watch and may be not for everybody. Dark would be a very accurate description to the tone/feel of the entire movie.

Quick Thoughts
- Fantastically shot by Phillips. A lot of great long shots, zooms, isolation. He should get recognition for his efforts.
- Phoenix was an absolute tour de force. By the end of the movie, I forgot it was an actor playing the character and completely bought into the role/performance. Stunning. Should be an easy Oscar nomination IMO.
- While there were few deaths, they were very stark, realistic, and chilling to see. Phillips did a great job shooting these almost in a disaffected manner. The death of

Spoiler

Randall in particular

was brutal but also led to one of the film's few laugh out loud moments immediately after in my theater group.
- Very black comedy element to everything going on.
- This is what Nolan 'talks about' when he mentioned The Dark Knight being realistic or down to earth. This film is first and foremost a study in mental health illness (which it does make pretty on the nose at times) and how a son can gradually devolve. I did like that it also touched on generational mental health and how sometimes it can be a result of other family members and what they do (or don't do in this case). The whole movie felt real in a painful manner and nothing came off as over the top or goofy.
- For the most part, the Gotham stuff was fine to me and felt part of the background of everything going on. The only scene that felt overly forced was the

Spoiler

Wayne death scene

but you kind of knew that was coming once the Thomas Wayne subplot started getting more focus.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If the Gotham stuff is in the background, wouldn't that support the notion that this movie didn't need to be attached to the DC property in the first place, and that this movie would have been just as good (presuming I take your word for it) if it wasn't called "Joker"?

 

[HarleyQuinn]

If the Gotham stuff is in the background, wouldn't that support the notion that this movie didn't need to be attached to the DC property in the first place, and that this movie would have been just as good (presuming I take your word for it) if it wasn't called "Joker"?

Pretty much. I liken it to something like Logan where there's hints of the Marvel/X-Men history there but it's not so overt; with the exception of one scene in this Joker film, you could easily have set this in a fictional city with a different 'rich' guy and it would've worked exactly the same.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

If the Gotham stuff is in the background, wouldn't that support the notion that this movie didn't need to be attached to the DC property in the first place, and that this movie would have been just as good (presuming I take your word for it) if it wasn't called "Joker"?

Pretty much. I liken it to something like Logan where there's hints of the Marvel/X-Men history there but it's not so overt; with the exception of one scene in this Joker film, you could easily have set this in a fictional city with a different 'rich' guy and it would've worked exactly the same.

Yeah, that's the source of my beef with this movie: I feel like Phillips could have made the movie he wanted to make, and just called it "Arthur" (Well, maybe not "Arthur," since that title's been taken), and had it have nothing to do with the DC character, and it probably would have been exactly the same movie. And I feel like the only reason why he called it Joker is because, if the same movie had just been about a random white man, he probably would have been excoriated, and he might not have found a studio willing to bankroll his vision.

I didn't like Logan for the similar reasons: like, I would have to say that, objectively, it was a good movie, but I didn't watch Logan because I wanted to watch a good movie, I watched it because I wanted to watch a good comic book movie. I felt that Logan largely failed to deliver on the "comic book" part.

 

[Gary]

It's a very well acted, directed, edited, shot and scored movie...that I ultimately found to be hollow. It feels like it wants to address issues such as mental illness, class inequality and violence in general, but it falls into the same problem "Batman V Superman"* did in that it's nowhere near as deep as it thinks it is. That and it's just so grim and depressing. For all the talk "The Dark Knight" got for how dark it was, it also had things like the subplot with Anthony Michael Hall and even some moments with the Joker that were funny. This movie wants so much to be taken seriously, but in the process forgets to be a good movie and feels embarrassed by the comic books the character originated from. Just because Todd Philips wants to let us all know he made a work of art doesn't mean he made a good one.

Spoiler

Finally, did we really need another scene where Bruce Wayne's parents are killed. At this point, we might as well make an "ABC's of Death" style anthology where they die in different ways and different scenarios.

*no I'm not saying BvS is the better movie or that this is just as bad.

 

[RedJed]

I'm with Gary on this......I enjoyed the performances and such, but something was densely and subversively hollow for sure here from start to finish. The social and political tones were there, but what point was made. The narrative was certainly unorthodox which gave it close to an arthouse feel. I did like the very grim and realistic approach towards mental health in general though and how that focus told the story a bit more clearer in a sense though. That was probably the strongest thing about this. Phoenix did great on the damn this guy is out to lunch thing, but will this film or his performance really get award noms? I somehow doubt it to be honest.

I guess my only real question that came out of this was that how will they follow up with this or is this just simply a one-off and they will go in the already established Suicide Squad Joker character down the road?

Spoiler

Will they reveal who killed Wayne in this universe or was that just added here to be cutesy?

 

[Mickey Massuco]

https://www.wired.com/story/joker-box-office-record/

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/comicgeekelly/status/1181328773825880066
LOL

 

[KingPK]

That does seem a tad excessive (not Rosa Parks excessive of course). The whole uproar around this movie was, as usual, completely ridiculous and ended up meaning nothing.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/WizzurdX/status/1180893198333272065

 

[Aero]

Saw this last night and mostly liked it. Phoenix was fantastic. Definitely a movie I wouldn't be in a rush to see a second time, however.

Spoiler

Kind of felt like the movie should have ended right after Arthur is broken out of the cop car, but maybe that wouldn't have been the best look to end it with him being celebrated, as opposed to locked up in an asylum... sort of.

Agreed with others that including the Waynes' murder seemed unnecessary. It felt tacked on, as if the studio forced them to hint at Batman.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

really enjoyed this. and I don't agree with the complaints about

Spoiler

wayne death scene. It was built up to the entire movie. It made sense. They were the main target of the cities range because of Thomas's comments.