Joss Whedon Shows - Dollhouse, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly Discussion Thread

[vivisectvi]

Posted by: Jingus April 03, 2009 01:33 am
Am I the only one still giving Dollhouse a try every Friday night? The episode two weeks ago was really good, but otherwise it's a frustrating mix of occasional really awesome moments surrounded by way too much tedious Deep Messages and banal Fox Action Show shit.

Just in case anyone here hasn't seen it: http://www.hulu.com/watch/28343/dr-horribles-sing-along-blog. Experience the GREATNESS that is Neil Patrick Harris vs Nathan Fillion.

Posted by: bps21 April 03, 2009 01:36 am
I'm still watching Dollhouse. I still don't know what Dollhouse is supposed to be...but I'm still watching Dollhouse.

It's weird that Whedon gave us the greatness that was Buffy, Firefly, season 5 of Angel, Serenity, Dr. Horrible...and somehow those fantastic things lead to...whatever Dollhouse is.

Posted by: Matt Young April 03, 2009 01:39 am
Do you not remember that the first season of Buffy wasn't all that great? Angel's first season was better, but I'd say Dollhouse season 1 has been better than Buffy season 1.

Posted by: bps21 April 03, 2009 01:44 am
I liked Buffy right from the start. I think that the 2 part opener was really good, Prophecy Girl and Angel were good eps...and I love me some Puppet Show.

The thing that Buffy had that Dollhouse doesn't...is that even when the episode wasn't interesting...I liked the characters and there was some humor in the dialogue.

Posted by: Molotov The Bear April 03, 2009 02:01 am
I like Dollhouse perfectly fine. But then I'm not a guy who needs to nitpick every little tiny thing to death. And yes, I'm still watching.

Dr Horrible's Sing Along Blog is pure awesome.

Posted by: cobainwasmurdered April 03, 2009 05:15 am
I thought Dollhouse had already been canceled so that shows where I'm at. I intended to check it out and still plan on it though this thread has made me less eager.

Posted by: HarleyQuinn April 03, 2009 10:54 am
Dollhouse has been solid as of late with the past 2 episodes. I think partly what's hurt it... and what it's starting to try to do, is develop the character interactions/characters themselves that make a Whedon show so great. I think if Dollhouse can get picked up, that we'll see better but the show is a bit too... boxed in terms of where it can go (characters and dialogue wise).

Season 1 of Buffy was underrated in that it had some great episodes (Angel, Prophecy Girl) with several solid ones (WTTH/TH, The Pack, Puppet Show). The dialogue and the characters were instantly there but it took until midway through Season 2 for the plot to really catch up.

 

[Jaxxxson Mayhem]

Dollhouse

Tonight's episode looked like it will be good based on last weeks preview.

 

[Jingus]

Dollhouse

It's still nowhere near as good as That One Episode was, but it's a step up from the earlier ones. Even if it is a self-ripoff of "Spin the Bottle" which was in turn a self-ripoff of "Tabula Rasa" which itself ripped off countless Twilight Zone episodes. In fact, I find that's a problem for me in a lot of these things, finding overly blatant paralells with prior Whedon work; like, how Topher is Xander and Wash and the Trio and so on. Seems like there's more recycling and less original work. Not sure if I like this recurring role of Sierra as a constant rape victim everywhere she goes. But at least they're finally moving in the direction I hoped they would, more about the internal workings of the House and less about those crappy mission-of-the-week plots.

 

[Jingus]

Dollhouse

Whoops, maybe this thread should be merged into Amalgamated Whedon.

 

[vivisectvi]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Is Dollhouse available on any websites after the fact? I keep missing the damn show..

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

I liked this episode but also got a STB/TR feel to it. Tango + french + that outfit? Yeah, I'm already waiting for screencaps of the episode.

Some of it was slow and it seems like it's all building up towards the final sprint but I did enjoy seeing the background specifically of November and her

Spoiler: Life

infant daughter (Sudden Infant Death Syndrome?

and I'm not sure how to feel about Sierra finding

Spoiler: Guy

Nolan and his evident blackmail of her

. I'm also getting annoyed with the constant Sierra + Rape wherever she goes and not a big fan of Victor/Sierra but I don't care a great deal about Victor either. Reminds me a little of Parker from Buffy.

I hope we see more of the black guy from last episode and Tango from this episode. I was hoping Boyd would be featured a little more but I enjoyed seeing some screen time for Amy Acker.

DubQ: I think it might be available on Hulu but I can't say for sure.

 

[Jingus]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Oh, another thing: enough with the damned slow-motion Lite Chick Rock musical montages to end the episodes. We've already had three or four of them, and we're still in the first season.

DubQ: I think it might be available on Hulu but I can't say for sure.

Yeah, it's on Hulu.com, they've usually got the last few episodes.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Dollhouse got a bad 3.49 rating for last night's episode and it looks like ratings happy Fox will more than likely axe it after this season finishes. Kind of a shame considering Dollhouse is finally finding its footing and a 2nd Season could be helpful in extending the story. I wonder if another station would be able to/allowed to pick it up?

Last Three Weeks
Episode 6: 4.13
Episode 7: 3.87
Episode 8: 3.49

I'm amazed its gotten the ratings its gotten because there has been zero promotion. It's like ECW on TNN. I've seen more ads promoting The Osbournes Reloaded and freakin' Fringe than I have Dollhouse. I have a feeling this was Fox just fucking Joss over yet again with, "We'll give this a shot" but not really and use an excuse of poor ratings to axe yet another of your shows.

It's a shame Joss couldn't land another show on The WB or UPN instead, where it'd get some promotion and shelf life.

 

[bps21]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

"The WB or UPN "

There can be only one!!!

And that's the CW...and they canceled Veronica Mars...so F them.

 

[Jingus]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

It's over. While there hasn't been an official cancellation notice yet, semi-official sources are already leaking that the network will not be airing the 13th and last shot episode of Dollhouse. Way to go, Fox, you fucked the show and you fucked the fans exactly like we were all saying you would.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

So they cancel the show and don't even have the decency to at least... at the very fucking least air the final episode to the series?

 

[Jingus]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Of course after we get word that the show is doomed, we promptly get the second-best episode of the season. Thrills, chills, action, plot twists, and deep pontificating upon the intrinsic meanings of the show's subtext. Too bad it's all ash in our mouths since we already know it'll never be followed up on.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Granted, my above comment may be premature but it bugs me that Fox can promote Fringe and Prison Break constantly but perish the thought they could do so for their Friday shows. Also just when Dollhouse was really getting into a groove-feel is when the bad news breaks. Fuck Fox to Hell.

This week's episode was solid again, with some brief moments of the dialogue/humor that's been featured in past Whedon shows. I was surprised at several events that occurred and appreciated the swerve on who the spy was, toying with the "obvious" candidate too was a nice touch. I'm also intrigued with the inner workings of The Dollhouse and am enjoying the fact that evolution seems be happening all over from the dolls themselves to jobs within The Dollhouse.

Dewitt =

Spoiler

BAD ASS

 

[Anakin Flair]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

So they cancel the show and don't even have the decency to at least... at the very fucking least air the final episode to the series?

I think I read somewhere that Episode 12 IS the final episode of the season, and that Ep. 13 is an epilogue of sorts that is set sometime in the future. Also, that episode will be available on the boxed set of Season 1.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Yeah, Anakin, I've read that as well. But it's a shame that the "epilogue" episode has to be shelved and tossed onto the DVD set without even airing.

Also Dollhouse got a 3.56 this week, slightly up from last week but got the same 1.4 in the core 18-49 market.

 

[Jingus]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

So am I the only one left watching this show? If so, I wouldn't blame you, since the heavy rumor seems to be that it's already cancelled. (I haven't seen any official word on this, but I'm not getting my hopes up.) Stupid stuff like last week's random break didn't help; come on, this show only has a dozen episodes, you can't air even that many without preempting it?

Which is a double damn shame considering how good tonight's episode was. Sure, the "implant a Doll with the memories of a dead person to solve their own murder" idea is very much an "early episodes of Season One" concept on paper. But in practice, it worked remarkably well. Most shocking was that Dushku finally seems to be warming up to the challenge; this was the first time I felt like she was portraying a complete well-rounded character, and did a good job of it. The usual "back at the lab..." subplots with Topher is hilarious like always, and I also appreciated how they're plumbing the FBI dude's darker tendencies what with him giving the neighbor doll some rough sex just because he could. So all this development and growth makes me a saaaad panda considering that the show is probably already a lame duck.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

I think we're the only ones posting in this thread... why must you doubt my hardcore fandom, Jingus?

I did enjoy tonight's episode although some it felt kind of obvious that there were multiple writers on the script (Yay, Jane Espenson). I was pleasantly surprised by Dushku's acting and like you, felt it was a good all around performance. This is the first episode where I actually liked Topher more in a character development way, rather than seeing him in a "token smart lab geek" mold. Found myself actually having sympathy for the guy and just the few scenes endeared his character more than any of the season had to this point.

I really do like Adelle's growing signs of empathy and actual human emotion now and again. She's quickly becoming one of the most intriguing characters that I watch the show for now, although I'd still love to see more development of Amy Acker's character (especially since she got scarred up whereas it seemed the others were largely un-disfigured when killed by Alpha).

 

[Molotov The Bear]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Your not the only ones still watching, I honestly didn't even think there was an episode tonight after last week's "2 hours of Prison Break randomly shows up out of nowhere" bullshit. I was worried they'd ALREADY canceled it. Looks like I'll be switching from Smackdown in 20 minutes or so.

 

[KOAB]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

I caught this halfway and was like WTF ??? with Topher. Glad it's DVR'd, gonna catch all of it tomorrow, but the little bit I did catch I can tell this episode is a winner.

 

[bps21]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

I am also still watching. That is all.

 

[atticus Chaos]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Whedon needs to start airing his stuff on cable. He's a niche market. Even Buffy only lasted so long because it was on a smaller network, the highest rating it ever got was 8 million, which by big network standards is unacceptable for a major primetime show.

I know a lot of people that will only watch new shows on cable. Mainly because they don't want to get into a show, and have it cancelled after 7 weeks. Even if cable won't renew a show, they'll almost always show the full season, so you'll get some sort of conclusion.

 

[fairtoflair7]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

I just caught up on the find out who killed me episode. I thought it was extremely clever and well done. Everybody has seemed to find their niche.

On another note, I read the other day that there's a good shot that Fox execs are not going to cancel the show. How about letting the show not air on a Friday night. ???

 

[KOAB]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Even though I expected this series to get at the very least 3 seasons, I don't see how they do not cancel this... Eliza is one of the highest paid people in television thanks to her signing on as a producer and it's not exactly a cheap show to make.

 

[Jingus]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Tonight's episode... eh, I dunno. I liked Alan Tudyck as the nerdy wimpy guy he usually plays, but when he goes all HEEL TURN and he's a serial killer, not sure I'm buying it. The Boyd/FBI Dude Whose Name I Can Never Remember fight was okay, and I'm glad they finally let Amy Acker have more than thirty seconds of screen time (tonight, it was about ninety seconds). But it felt odd to have Bobby Fed in the Dollhouse in, what is this, the tenth episode? And who knows where they're going with that final plot twist.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

11th since next week's episode is the season/series/who knows finale.

I too liked Alan's nerdy guy but didn't really buy the morph into "Alpha", bastard of steel (although poor Victor). I actually kind of wished we had seen more of Adele given what was happening but I guess that'll happen next week. Didn't care too much about the whole what's his face being given a new body aspect and Sierra was kind of light, given that she only found the name of the killer just as they saw Alpha anyway (did he "take over" the guy's apartment room that he killed?)

I also wish we had seen more of Amy's character not just as Doctor to help the patients/be afraid of Alpha.

 

[atticus Chaos]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Ausellio said this show had gone from a decent chance for renewal to a long shot. It doesn't look good, quite frankly.

Eliza is one of the highest paid people in television thanks to her signing on as a producer and it's not exactly a cheap show to make.

Eh, I don't think she's anything close to the highest paid. Keifer Sutherland makes a fortune, so do the desperate housewives cast, a few of the lost cast make very good money as well. But those shows are huge hits. I don't think being producer automatically makes her much money, either: I remember Rose McGowan said she was offered the chance to follow in her co-stars footsteps and produce Charmed but she turned it down because they weren't offering her any money for it.

I think even the title of producer is questionable in this case. Vince McMahon has been labelled the producer in many wrestling related films, but he had little or nothing to do with the final product. Welcome to the Jungle only had his name on it because he owned The Rock's name. I think Eliza is only credited as such because her and Whedon came up with a very vague idea of the show one lunchtime. Beyond that, I don't think she's done much. And I'd seriously question Whedon if he handed over that much creative power to an actress who has made some fairly crappy choices in her own acting career.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Past 3 weeks ratings wise for Dollhouse...

4.30 (1.6), 2.99 (1.2), and 3.09 (1.1) this past Friday. Not sure if the uptick will help at all but looking more doubtful that Fox will renew it unless there's one executive that really, really pulls for a second season.

 

[atticus Chaos]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

I don't think Dollhouse has much chance of getting renewed, which is unfortunate. Because flawed as it is, it's still better than a lot of the other shows on tv. These last few episodes have been outstanding.

 

[Jingus]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

...I really don't want this show to go away. I got multiple orgasms from this evening's mindfuck. Amazing how utterly different it is now from those first five ambitionless episodes.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows

Likewise... I really want to see a second season and it's amazing that Dollhouse got any ratings given the lack of any hype and the Friday death slot. It's a shame that a show like Dollhouse seems to be hitting a good peak writing wise since roughly episode 6 and yet it may be canceled anyway because Fox dicked the first five episodes, then expected the show to do well just because it had Joss' name and they didn't need to do any promotion for it.

Spoiler

Amy Acker as a bad ass and in leather... great swerve (makes sense with the show intro too actually). Also like that Alpha is still on the run and that Mellie was the one "saved" rather than Echo. This episode had several great twists/swerves without being obvious that it was a swerve just to swerve.