Molotov The Bear
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Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows
Watching it right now and Holy shit!
Watching it right now and Holy shit!
Fred's a Doll! Did not see that coming.
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Joss Whedon Shows - Dollhouse, Buffy, Angel, and Firefly Discussion Thread
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Matt Young
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Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows
I just finished watching the finale. Wow, what an amazing episode. I really hope the show gets renewed. It may be my 2nd favorite show on TV, after Lost. It was awesome to see Amy Acker get so much screen time. The reveal that she was a doll didn't surprise me, since someone on Cheap Ass Gamer pointed out that Mr. Dominick (while in Victor's body) called "Dr. Saunders" Whiskey. I just though dude wanted a drink. I felt stupid for missing something so obvious. I was surprised by the fact that there was an actual Dr. Saunders whose knowledge and skills were imprinted onto Amy Acker's character, however.
I just finished watching the finale. Wow, what an amazing episode. I really hope the show gets renewed. It may be my 2nd favorite show on TV, after Lost. It was awesome to see Amy Acker get so much screen time. The reveal that she was a doll didn't surprise me, since someone on Cheap Ass Gamer pointed out that Mr. Dominick (while in Victor's body) called "Dr. Saunders" Whiskey. I just though dude wanted a drink. I felt stupid for missing something so obvious. I was surprised by the fact that there was an actual Dr. Saunders whose knowledge and skills were imprinted onto Amy Acker's character, however.
Jingus
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I also liked the depth in having Fed choose the neighbor doll to be let go instead of Echo. What's the real motivation there? Did he feel bad for abusing neighbor doll's body like he did? Could he not stand to look at her anymore? Meanwhile, he could've had Echo released, but instead decided to keep her there... with him. It's almost a Taxi Driver kind of vibe from this guy.
Plus, more Acker = win. The idea that she knows she's fake but still wants to stay that way is rather intriguing. This makes me want to go back and watch last week's episode again, to replay the part where Alpha was talking to her (and btw, Tudyck did much better this week) and catch some underlying stuff we obviously didn't know was there at the time. Also, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a more disturbing image on any Whedon show than Fred banging Wash while simultaneously banging and torturing the other dude.
I did have one complaint, though: the song they chose for the end montage. I'm glad that Joss loved Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind as much as I did, but even though the song fit the scene I still found it distracting since it was so heavily connected to that movie.
I also liked the depth in having Fed choose the neighbor doll to be let go instead of Echo. What's the real motivation there? Did he feel bad for abusing neighbor doll's body like he did? Could he not stand to look at her anymore? Meanwhile, he could've had Echo released, but instead decided to keep her there... with him. It's almost a Taxi Driver kind of vibe from this guy.
Plus, more Acker = win. The idea that she knows she's fake but still wants to stay that way is rather intriguing. This makes me want to go back and watch last week's episode again, to replay the part where Alpha was talking to her (and btw, Tudyck did much better this week) and catch some underlying stuff we obviously didn't know was there at the time. Also, I'm not sure if I've ever seen a more disturbing image on any Whedon show than Fred banging Wash while simultaneously banging and torturing the other dude.
I did have one complaint, though: the song they chose for the end montage. I'm glad that Joss loved Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind as much as I did, but even though the song fit the scene I still found it distracting since it was so heavily connected to that movie.
atticus Chaos
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I think Adelle would have kicked up a fuss if Ballard had wanted to release Echo, she is their top active. Whereas Mellie is more expendable.
I disliked the whole serial killer storyline, and I think Alpha lost a lot of his depth. Saying he was evil before ruined it, as I think it would have been better if it was the procedure that made him crazy, rather than he already was crazy.
I don't know how much blame you can place on Fox for it's lack of success: they fiddled with the first few episodes, which most people agree were fairly crap and probably cost it a lot of it's audience, but from what I understand they also made Joss tone down the sex, which was something people have complained about. So, if Fox hadn't intervened there people would have complained more. I actually think moving it to Friday's was a good move, and it was doing fairly well with terminator, for a while anyway. If they had given it a prime time slot on Thursday it would have failed a lot sooner. Whedon gave off the vibe in interviews that Fox really did want to renew the show, and I think probably would have if it were still getting 4 million per episode. Even though that's still quite medicore by network standards.
I think Fox are a bit to blame, but not nearly as much as they were with Firefly.
I think Adelle would have kicked up a fuss if Ballard had wanted to release Echo, she is their top active. Whereas Mellie is more expendable.
I disliked the whole serial killer storyline, and I think Alpha lost a lot of his depth. Saying he was evil before ruined it, as I think it would have been better if it was the procedure that made him crazy, rather than he already was crazy.
I don't know how much blame you can place on Fox for it's lack of success: they fiddled with the first few episodes, which most people agree were fairly crap and probably cost it a lot of it's audience, but from what I understand they also made Joss tone down the sex, which was something people have complained about. So, if Fox hadn't intervened there people would have complained more. I actually think moving it to Friday's was a good move, and it was doing fairly well with terminator, for a while anyway. If they had given it a prime time slot on Thursday it would have failed a lot sooner. Whedon gave off the vibe in interviews that Fox really did want to renew the show, and I think probably would have if it were still getting 4 million per episode. Even though that's still quite medicore by network standards.
I think Fox are a bit to blame, but not nearly as much as they were with Firefly.
M
Matt Young
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Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows
http://tvseriesfinale.com/articles/dollhouse-not-cancelled/
There's still hope! Please, God, let it happen!
http://tvseriesfinale.com/articles/dollhouse-not-cancelled/
There's still hope! Please, God, let it happen!
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The more I read around, the more it seems that many think ratings = it's dead but that the network itself is still weighing the issue/showing some interesting in keeping the show alive for a second season regardless of just the ratings so that's somewhat good news.
The more I read around, the more it seems that many think ratings = it's dead but that the network itself is still weighing the issue/showing some interesting in keeping the show alive for a second season regardless of just the ratings so that's somewhat good news.
fairtoflair7
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Why the hell don't they just move it to a non-Friday spot? if you can get an audience then great the show works but if not, then it proves that there's little viewership regardless of time slot.
Why the hell don't they just move it to a non-Friday spot? if you can get an audience then great the show works but if not, then it proves that there's little viewership regardless of time slot.
KOAB
KOAB
Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows
It would be nice if it also had a decent marketing push behind it. Stop trying to sell the show with just the name power of Dushku and Whedon... maybe give it like, I don't know... half, hell even a fourth of the marketing Prison Break had behind it and start from there, and don't forget about it during the summer for the next failed reality show. Air re-runs and actually advertise them.
It would be nice if it also had a decent marketing push behind it. Stop trying to sell the show with just the name power of Dushku and Whedon... maybe give it like, I don't know... half, hell even a fourth of the marketing Prison Break had behind it and start from there, and don't forget about it during the summer for the next failed reality show. Air re-runs and actually advertise them.
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That's the thing that bugs me. I don't watch much Fox but I saw more ads for The Osbournes Reloaded than I did for Dollhouse (during Hell's Kitchen on Thursday Nights). I kind of doubt that Fox was showing snippets for Dollhouse during American Idol or 24, because they weren't during House.
At best, the marketing was an ad with Eliza and Summer on Thursday Night during Hell's Kitchen basically saying, "We have really cool shows on Friday so watch them, please?" and showing them maybe twice if that.
A better ad would've maybe had a tag line of, "From the producer of Buffy, Angel, and director of Serenity comes Dollhouse on Friday Nights" with clips from old episodes. Doesn't sound too hard to accomplish.
That's the thing that bugs me. I don't watch much Fox but I saw more ads for The Osbournes Reloaded than I did for Dollhouse (during Hell's Kitchen on Thursday Nights). I kind of doubt that Fox was showing snippets for Dollhouse during American Idol or 24, because they weren't during House.
At best, the marketing was an ad with Eliza and Summer on Thursday Night during Hell's Kitchen basically saying, "We have really cool shows on Friday so watch them, please?" and showing them maybe twice if that.
A better ad would've maybe had a tag line of, "From the producer of Buffy, Angel, and director of Serenity comes Dollhouse on Friday Nights" with clips from old episodes. Doesn't sound too hard to accomplish.
KOAB
KOAB
Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows
the whole marketing angle for "FOX Friday" was 2 hours of "sexy women who can kick BUTT!" which was usually 15-20 seconds of Eliza talking about Sarah Connor (3 second clip shown) and then her playing up the fact she was basically Cosplaying on Dollhouse (quick snippet of her fight with FBI dude or her wearing something revealing). I saw those ads maybe 2 or 3 times. It reminded me of the old Conan joke of having the end of The Tonight Show with Leno hyping up tomorrows guest followed by mentioning Conan for like 3 seconds.
the whole marketing angle for "FOX Friday" was 2 hours of "sexy women who can kick BUTT!" which was usually 15-20 seconds of Eliza talking about Sarah Connor (3 second clip shown) and then her playing up the fact she was basically Cosplaying on Dollhouse (quick snippet of her fight with FBI dude or her wearing something revealing). I saw those ads maybe 2 or 3 times. It reminded me of the old Conan joke of having the end of The Tonight Show with Leno hyping up tomorrows guest followed by mentioning Conan for like 3 seconds.
atticus Chaos
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http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/05/dollhouse-second-season.html
It's been renewed. And is likely going to remain on Friday's.
Maybe Fox just got tired of being accused of cancelling everything. They've actually renewed most of their schedule this year, I believe.
http://www.thrfeed.com/2009/05/dollhouse-second-season.html
It's been renewed. And is likely going to remain on Friday's.
Maybe Fox just got tired of being accused of cancelling everything. They've actually renewed most of their schedule this year, I believe.
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Awesome!!!! Really glad to see this as the series was definitely kicking into high gear... I like that the report "tried" to explain why.
Also key is that reportedly, they'll have a smaller budget to work with (which I think partly made Buffy the show that it was). Also good that Joss reportedly shot the 13th episode as an example.
Awesome!!!! Really glad to see this as the series was definitely kicking into high gear... I like that the report "tried" to explain why.
Also key is that reportedly, they'll have a smaller budget to work with (which I think partly made Buffy the show that it was). Also good that Joss reportedly shot the 13th episode as an example.
atticus Chaos
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I think they're just hoping it'll be a hit on DVD. Whedon's shows usually are.
I think they're just hoping it'll be a hit on DVD. Whedon's shows usually are.
vivisectvi
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Speaking of the DVD - it's coming out July 28th.
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Dollhouse-Season-1-Press-Release/11869
Speaking of the DVD - it's coming out July 28th.
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Dollhouse-Season-1-Press-Release/11869
atticus Chaos
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Fox will be airing Epitaph One, according to whedonesque. Fox got the episode thrown in as part of their season two deal. I'm not sure when it will be shown.
Apparently, Fox seems to be admitting that meddling with the show earlier was a bad idea, and now realize Whedon is better when he's left to do it himself. From what I've heard, they really loved the second half of the season.
Fox will be airing Epitaph One, according to whedonesque. Fox got the episode thrown in as part of their season two deal. I'm not sure when it will be shown.
Apparently, Fox seems to be admitting that meddling with the show earlier was a bad idea, and now realize Whedon is better when he's left to do it himself. From what I've heard, they really loved the second half of the season.
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Just saw this posted over at TVByTheNumbers...
"A lot of the negotiation thats been reported were about their financial situation with the show. There have been budget cuts for the next season and episodes have been reduced from 50 to 42 minutes."
Good to hear as sometimes the episodes felt a bit drawn out. Buffy (and Angel) routinely went around 41-45 minutes per episode.
Just saw this posted over at TVByTheNumbers...
"A lot of the negotiation thats been reported were about their financial situation with the show. There have been budget cuts for the next season and episodes have been reduced from 50 to 42 minutes."
Good to hear as sometimes the episodes felt a bit drawn out. Buffy (and Angel) routinely went around 41-45 minutes per episode.
Jingus
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That was one thing that always felt weird, the ultra-short commercial breaks. Not even enough time to grab a snack or go to the bathroom, plus you know the show would get less ad money since fewer ads aired. I guess having the extra content didn't hurt, but really, how much can you do with just eight extra minutes? Probably a good idea to reduce it back down to the standard 42-minute format.
That was one thing that always felt weird, the ultra-short commercial breaks. Not even enough time to grab a snack or go to the bathroom, plus you know the show would get less ad money since fewer ads aired. I guess having the extra content didn't hurt, but really, how much can you do with just eight extra minutes? Probably a good idea to reduce it back down to the standard 42-minute format.
Edwin
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I'm astonished it got renewed, but that's good news. The show went from Awful to Quite Good over the back half of the season, and the shortened episodes can only help keep it focused.
I'm astonished it got renewed, but that's good news. The show went from Awful to Quite Good over the back half of the season, and the shortened episodes can only help keep it focused.
I think that was the point. Short ads mean you're not going to go do something for 3 minutes and miss them all; you're going to stay on the couch and see the 60-90 seconds they're giving you since it's not that much of an inconvenience. I can see it as an interesting counterstrategy to DVR viewing, since on most DVRs it's a monumental pain to fast forward and stop within 60-90 seconds. Ultimately, not sure it's worth the immediate revenue loss by splitting time, but that kind of unconventional scheduling is probably going to be necessary as we get more and more access to better ad-skipping technology.Jingus said:
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One thing that probably helped was the DVR numbers... Note that below includes Live + 7 Day DVR numbers. Dollhouse was getting huge increases from the DVR in regards to the 18-49 age bracket. Sometimes jumping almost a full point from the live numbers. Dollhouse was also getting around 40% of it's viewers from DVR alone.
April 6th - April 12th: 1.87
March 30th - April 5th: 1.96
March 23rd - March 29th: 1.96
March 16th - March 22nd: 2.03
March 9th - March 15th: 2.14
March 2nd - March 8th: 2.11
February 15th - February 22nd: 2.21 (Series Premiere)
One thing that probably helped was the DVR numbers... Note that below includes Live + 7 Day DVR numbers. Dollhouse was getting huge increases from the DVR in regards to the 18-49 age bracket. Sometimes jumping almost a full point from the live numbers. Dollhouse was also getting around 40% of it's viewers from DVR alone.
April 6th - April 12th: 1.87
March 30th - April 5th: 1.96
March 23rd - March 29th: 1.96
March 16th - March 22nd: 2.03
March 9th - March 15th: 2.14
March 2nd - March 8th: 2.11
February 15th - February 22nd: 2.21 (Series Premiere)
atticus Chaos
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In fairness, terminator had a similar increase, but it didn't get renewed. Dollhouse was aided by the fact that it's with the same studio, Terminator was with WB, so Fox stood to make more money from dollhouse. There's also the fact that Dollhouse can be made for a lot cheaper and Fox realized they'd maybe messed with it creatively and it deserved another shot.HarleyQuinn said:
atticus Chaos
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Just saw Epitaph one...
It was a lot like Lost, with the flash foward episodes. And, in fact, went further with lost, because they explained almost everything. I think that might have been a mistake since they've boxed themselves in now, and assuming this episode is cannon (and there was nothing to suggest it wasn't) they can't really deviate from what's been laid out here. Not that what was here didn't look like a great direction to take the show in, but I think they've taken a lot of the mystery out of it. Which was possibly why Fox decided not to air it despite being rumoured to be extremely impressed with it.
Some major spoilers from the episode
Just saw Epitaph one...
It was a lot like Lost, with the flash foward episodes. And, in fact, went further with lost, because they explained almost everything. I think that might have been a mistake since they've boxed themselves in now, and assuming this episode is cannon (and there was nothing to suggest it wasn't) they can't really deviate from what's been laid out here. Not that what was here didn't look like a great direction to take the show in, but I think they've taken a lot of the mystery out of it. Which was possibly why Fox decided not to air it despite being rumoured to be extremely impressed with it.
Some major spoilers from the episode
Dr Saunders and Victor must know the doctors from Nip/Tuck, because they're no longer scarred, but Saunder's mentions there was a price to pay for it.
The whole "live forever" idea in the episode Haunted is expanded on. And it seems the rich and powerful intend to use dollhouse for that purpose. Adelle is unhappy because she's not willing to hand over an active's body long term.
Dominic gets out of the attic at some point.
Paul becomes Echo's handler, but at some point she becomes self aware and manages to be Caroline, and whatever imprint she is at the same time. So, she seems to be undercover.
There's a cure that stops someone from being imprinted and when the technology runs amock, it becomes desperately saught after, and Caroline (who by this point has escaped) has it.
Topher goes crazy from the guilt of inflicting this on the world.
People can get imprinted from anything technological in 2019, so the freedom fighters stay away from anything electronic or modern.
Caroline and Ballard have some sort of romantic relationship, as do Boyd and Saunders.
The whole "live forever" idea in the episode Haunted is expanded on. And it seems the rich and powerful intend to use dollhouse for that purpose. Adelle is unhappy because she's not willing to hand over an active's body long term.
Dominic gets out of the attic at some point.
Paul becomes Echo's handler, but at some point she becomes self aware and manages to be Caroline, and whatever imprint she is at the same time. So, she seems to be undercover.
There's a cure that stops someone from being imprinted and when the technology runs amock, it becomes desperately saught after, and Caroline (who by this point has escaped) has it.
Topher goes crazy from the guilt of inflicting this on the world.
People can get imprinted from anything technological in 2019, so the freedom fighters stay away from anything electronic or modern.
Caroline and Ballard have some sort of romantic relationship, as do Boyd and Saunders.
vivisectvi
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Is that episode going to be on the dvds?
Is that episode going to be on the dvds?
M
Matt Young
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Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows
Yes.
Yes.
atticus Chaos
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Whedon interview about season 2. Mild spoilers.
http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/news/a-guided-tour-of-dollhouse-season-2-1791.html
I loved this line when asked about viewing figures:
Whedon interview about season 2. Mild spoilers.
http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/news/a-guided-tour-of-dollhouse-season-2-1791.html
I loved this line when asked about viewing figures:
bps21
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I picked up the Blu Ray set and watched the season over again. Man...this show becomes roughly 10000000 times better after episode 5. I don't know what they were doing up until then...but everything after that is actually quite good and engaging TV.
Also...Epitaph One fucking rules hard.
I picked up the Blu Ray set and watched the season over again. Man...this show becomes roughly 10000000 times better after episode 5. I don't know what they were doing up until then...but everything after that is actually quite good and engaging TV.
Also...Epitaph One fucking rules hard.
Youth N Asia
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Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows
Apparently Andy Hallett who played Lorne on Angel died this spring.
Apparently Andy Hallett who played Lorne on Angel died this spring.
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Yeah, YNA. There was a thread started when it happened. Also grabbed the Season 1 set for $19.99 out of my own pocket (huzzah for additional $20 Best Buy gift card from Christmas that went unused).
Yeah, YNA. There was a thread started when it happened. Also grabbed the Season 1 set for $19.99 out of my own pocket (huzzah for additional $20 Best Buy gift card from Christmas that went unused).
Big Beard Booty Daddy
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Amalgamated Whedon - Dollhouse and previous, better shows
I was thinking of blind buying this series, but before I bought it, was wondering if it would be a good idea? Is the show worth it?
I was thinking of blind buying this series, but before I bought it, was wondering if it would be a good idea? Is the show worth it?
vivisectvi
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Finally got the Bluray for this series.. I'm pretty sure Amazon fucked up and offered it for $23 (it was $36 the week before) and luckily it was during a time when I went to the site.. so I nabbed a pre-order.. within a few days the price went up to $50 something. Then there was a delay. But yeah, it's here now. The GF and I will be putting in a marathon of this soon, I suppose.
Finally got the Bluray for this series.. I'm pretty sure Amazon fucked up and offered it for $23 (it was $36 the week before) and luckily it was during a time when I went to the site.. so I nabbed a pre-order.. within a few days the price went up to $50 something. Then there was a delay. But yeah, it's here now. The GF and I will be putting in a marathon of this soon, I suppose.