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KISS Dorks

Phil Jackson

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I've always been a big Kiss fan, since I hung out with them after a show at the Beacon back in '75. They looked up to me because I was an NBA star, but I told them they would make it and they did. I could pick out talent even back then.

Anyway, I'll update this thread with more organized thoughts after the peyote wears off.
 

Magic Johnson

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Mr. Jackson, I don't agree with you on much, but you were really on the money with this one. KISS are rock and roll legends, and not only that, before the Insane Clown Posse, straight from my home state of Michigan, came into the picture, they rocked the face paint like no other musical act.
 

Phil Jackson

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Thanks Magic, and I think we agree on more than you think:

https://sports.yahoo.com/phil-jackson-reportedly-wanted-lonzo-210243083.html
 

Phil Jackson

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Where do I begin with this legendary brand?

It’s probably best to explain why many didn’t like them to begin with, and why they are still the butt of many jokes today. Perhaps rock’s best kept secret despite selling out stadiums all over the world, Kiss’s lack of radio play prevented many young people post-1990 to really take them seriously. They were depicted as dad rock before dad rock was even a thing, and most younger folks looked at them like a joke as a result. That’s true even to this day!

But like my man DubQ up there pointed it out, there’s a reason why so many musicians who were around for their prime looked up to them. The fact that they’ve carved out the place that they have in the canon of rock history despite getting almost no help from radio stations or journalist hacks is probably the ultimate testament to their greatness.

Without Ace, Gene and Paul are just a superband featuring a rotating cast of accomplished players. Which is funny to say, but it just shows how epic Kiss really was in its prime.

I’ll post some more thoughts later about specific albums that I personally enjoy the most. But I have to say, listening to the debut album, it was immediately clear that this band was way cooler than what many had been let in on. Cold Gin is Trans Am rock at its best produced, and has such a classic fucking riff. It’s a shame about Ace’s shyness around this time period, as a song about drinking needs to be sung by a guy who has cold gin running in his veins 24/7, not someone who is basically dry. Still a great song though.

Btw, when Ace told me about his shyness problems, I helped him meditate. it just didn’t take though, he told me drinking was just so much easier for him to let his guard down. I never asked what his problems were, but I was as shocked as anyone when I heard about the drunk driving incident depicted in Rock Soldiers. Of course he told me about it before he told you guys, and I helped him see the demons in his behaviour that he referenced in his lyrics. It’s extremely personal about a crazy real life incident with an anthemic riff and bass drum. What a great track.

But I digress. The debut album sounds like it was produced in an auto shop, and I mean that in a good way. It also shows the diversity in styles and influence in their song structures. Nothin’ To Lose has a bluesy feel, Strutter is a great opener with a catchy hook and a fun beat you can dance to. The chugging riff of Firehouse is great for when you wanna zone out and get taken on a sweet ride to that era to see what rockin' out was supposed to feel like. And that's probably the best way to describe this album, as the sound, song styles, hooks and lyrics make it feel like quintessential classic rock.

What a great debut, a showcase of what this quartet with a tight sound and a budding knack for pop songwriting were capable of. Too bad the media and radio stations didn’t see it that way, but my man Kamala already covered all that.

Come back to this thread to hear more hot takes about other Kiss albums, including the revelation of my favorite one. I’ll give you a hint, it’s not what you expect from ya boy.
 

LaVar Ball

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If the "Juggalo life" doesn't even allow you to buy mainstream soda, then I don't to know anything about it! You can't drink Moon Mist and call yourself a Big Baller! C'mon Mag', I thought we were above this!
 

Phil Jackson

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Stay in your lane, Lavar. I'm working on my article about my favourite Kiss album, and I don't want the Kiss Army to be distracted by your BULLSHIT.
 

Phil Jackson

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for all your snobby indie rock friends like byron who hate on Kiss:

The Kiss Indie Army
Every individual on this list and at least one individual in every band on this list has admitted to being or having been a fan of Kiss.

Rivers Cuomo (Weezer)

Thurston Moore (Sonic Youth)

Nirvana

Bill Stevenson (All)

The Melvins

J. Mascis (Dinosaur Jr.)

Stephen Malkmus and Scott Kannberg (Pavement)

Trent Reznor (Nine Inch Nails)

Marilyn Manson

Soundgarden

Stone Temple PilotsJeff Ament (Pearl Jam)

Alice in Chains

Malfunkshun

Mother Love Bone

Mudhoney

Red Hot Chili Peppers

Lemonheads

Smashing Pumpkins

The Replacements

Bob Mould

Dan Murphy (Soul Asylum)

Guy Picciotto (Fugazi)

Mike Watt (Minutemen)

Peter Prescott (Mission of Burma)

Greg Demos (Guided by Voices)

Superchunk

Tom Morello (Rage Against the Machine)

Maynard James Keenan (Tool)

Redd Kross

Craig Finn (The Hold Steady)

Daft Punk

Adam Horovitz (Beastie Boys)

Craig Montoya (Everclear)

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/music/a28273/kiss-indie-rock/
 

Mickey Massuco

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Did you read Stanley's autobiography? It was released after you started this thread.

The stuff about Aucoin is beyond fucked, and actually noticing the Kiss Timeline, he was fired shortly after that reveal.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Face The Music is a genuinely great read. I did a write up of all of the KISS members autobiographies somewhere. The Aucoin stuff was wild. He was A to Z. In I Want My MTV (another great retro music non fiction read), someone says he was the only person who partied crazier than Keith Moon. But Moonie never diddled kis!

Peter Criss' is awesome too but more in an insane sleazy celeb autobiography way. Face The Music legit made me gain a lot more respect for Starchild (and he is already my favorite). One of my biggest life regrets is missing a book signing for it because I was too hungover cause it was day after my birthday. I should've just sucked it up. Been less like Ace Frehley and more like my hero Starchild :'(
 

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I won't spoil it for you but Sebastian Bach has a story about Ace in his book (yes, I read it) that doesn't portray him in the best light.
 

Mickey Massuco

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God King Emperor Kamala said:
because I was too hungover cause it was day after my birthday. I should've just sucked it up. Been less like Ace Frehley and more like my hero Starchild :'(

lirl

I'm gonna check out the article now.

Epic Reine of Mutiny said:
I won't spoil it for you but Sebastian Bach has a story about Ace in his book (yes, I read it) that doesn't portray him in the best light.

wtf man how can you bring that shit up and not say what it was. i'm not gonna read that book. I can't find anything about that story online.
 

Mickey Massuco

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The Starchild's book shat on them to a degree that seemed unfair imo, although I agree it was really honest. It is definitely the best book, in terms of being the most comprehensive look at Kiss while also being a touching narrative of a person trying to fill their insecurity with fame, failing, and finding real happiness in life. Him comparing that journey to Gene's uhh lack of self-reflection was shocking to me, didn't think he would be so open about that. I thought his introspection about wanting to be liked and the issues that evoked when the band nosedived after Unmasked was quite moving, and something anyone can relate to. The way he describes willing himself and Kiss out of their funk and back into the spotlight is inspiring.

But sometimes I feel he went overboard in denigrating bandmates, while ignoring his own flaws. For example, he shits on Eric Carr a lot for being shy around people he doesn't know, acting like he was so weird. Yet at the same time there are parts of the book where he talks about his own social anxiety and insecurity in a way that's meant to make us feel for him. And I do, and I appreciate his honesty about the hollow nature of his life when it was seemingly at its peak, as well as his unflinching take on his own frailties. I just wish he showed more awareness and empathy for other people in his band that had the same issues, and it seems like he could show a little more compassion to Ace/Peter in general.

I still think No Regrets is underrated, because Ace went in deep on the musical stuff more than Paul did. I had interest in hearing him describe his influences and the way he recorded certain songs. I think he did a better job of explaining the recording process for their big albums than Paul did. I also think the stories of his early life were pretty wild and interesting. I agree that it's not well-written and it didn't do a good job of capturing that ultra charismatic bronx chuckle we all know so well, but a lot of the narrative still has that laid back feel so I don't think it did such a bad job capturing the dude's voice. His life story was super interesting and I felt while it could have been better, it was still a good look at the spaceman.
 

Mickey Massuco

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KAmCUicx-uQ

I mean my god, how can someone not love that laugh? We all have a friend like that, but this is the standard. I can watch this all day. His Bronx accent is so authentic too. Gonna have to listen to Hard Times brb

This video does such a great job of showcasing the different personality types of these two pairs also. It's clear that something was lost when those two left, as the host gives zero shits about the PR answers from one side, and can't stop laughing along with and indulging the cat and space men. You can't chastise them too much for being loaded, that's what made this interview work!
 

Fall of Epic

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Conspiracy Theorist said:
God King Emperor Kamala said:
because I was too hungover cause it was day after my birthday. I should've just sucked it up. Been less like Ace Frehley and more like my hero Starchild :'(

lirl

I'm gonna check out the article now.

Epic Reine of Mutiny said:
I won't spoil it for you but Sebastian Bach has a story about Ace in his book (yes, I read it) that doesn't portray him in the best light.

wtf man how can you bring that shit up and not say what it was. i'm not gonna read that book. I can't find anything online.

Bach wrote a song for Ace and he wound up using it on one of his solo records. He changed the title and didn't give Baz any writing credits. He was pretty hurt by it.
 

Mickey Massuco

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man that's not as bad as dressing up as a nazi as a 'prank' and ambushing the son of a holocaust survivor in the middle of the night. Though Ace did admit that one went 'a little far', and I'm surprised Paul went along with it but I guess it was just a different era as far as those kinds of 'pranks' went.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Paul was overly harsh on Eric Carr in his book but I think it was probably reaction to KISS geeks deifying Carr as this poor innocent victim that was trampled on by Gene & Paul...which I mean he kind of was. At same time, Eric Carr was a grown ass dude who made his own decisions. He probably could've left and started a third tier '80s hair metal band of his own like Vinnie Vincent did if he wanted to.


KISS and Sell, the book by KISS accountant CK Lendt kind of corroborates Paul's apppraisal of Eric Carr. He just seemed like a very lonely & insecure, eager to be liked dude that lacked the other's charisma and tenacity. That book is surprisingly interesting as well, if you can find it, YPOV. Good neutral account (heh) of how fuckin' crazy KISS was in their heyday and how dumb they were at blowing their money and their career. Also has a good anecdote about Gene Simmons being terrified of menstural blood.
 

Mickey Massuco

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Thank you for the rec, I will definitely check it out. There aren't a lot of stories in the autobiographies about how the Kiss members fucked up their own fortunes and lives. A lot of that is skimmed over, so I am curious to get more details on that.

Ranking the Frehley/Criss studio albums (excluding Unmasked, which technically featured Peter but he didn't play at all on):

Dynasty
Love Gun
Destroyer
Hotter Than Hell
Kiss
Dressed To Kill
Rock and Roll Over

I know Peter was only on one song on that album but fuck it, non-stop bangers throughout.
 

AA484

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Creatures of the Night is the best Kiss album.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Conspiracy Theorist said:
How true is Peter's book btw? He throws out a LOT of ridiculous assertions.
Peter's while being the most entertaining, it is probably least true KISS autobiography, purely on basis of assertion that Peter's solo career wasn't complete trash. even by KISS solo albums standards, his are complete trash outside of maybe 2 songs.

But yeah, he throws complete firebombs out there. Like randomly dropping that Mark St. John was a pedo :eek:

Glad you love Dynasty too, YPOV. I really friggin enjoy that album. It has Paul & Ace, KISS' two best songwriters, at their peak. Hot Take: "Dirty Livin'" is also a Top 3 Peter song and really does a good job encapsulating of how much of a fuckhead he was in 1979. Gene Simmons' songs are the weak point and they are still perfectly good dumb disco rock songs.
 

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"I Was Made For Lovin' You" is a guilty pleasure. The rest of that album can fuck off.
 

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Here's something I never knew before: Apparently Alice Cooper sued KISS after the release of Psycho Circus because the song "Dreamin" sounded like "I'm Eighteen". Alice actually won in court.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQ3lB2B0bwA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nptFEl-nwM

I see the resemblance but I don't think it sounds that much similar.
 

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KISS just announced their FINAL world tour (before the next one).

Kamala, this is (probably not) your last chance!
 

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Bah gawd, they're coming to the Garden in March. I might have to see KISS, y'all.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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I saw KISS two years ago on Labor Day and I think that was my final time. Starchild really has lost most of his vocal power plus that show had dumb amount of Colin Kaepernick bashing.

I might change my tune if they officially announce Ace is gonna be at the Boston show though...
 
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