Michael Jackson Passes Away

[Obi Chris Kenobi]

2 weeks on and ITV are showing the Martin Bashir interview with Michael Jackson, the one that led to his downfall the second time.

Can you really call it a second downfall, though? MJ's public image took a big hit in 1993 with the first child molestation allegations, and it never truly recovered.

Aye, spot on, wasn't the start, more like the nail on the coffin. Though as mentioned it was pretty cruelly edited to highlight the bad points even more.

 

[Zeddemore]

I think it's easy to poke fun at Bashir, and judging by the amount of venom Jackson fans have spewed at him since his death, many clearly blame him for his downfall, but I never really judged Bashir that badly. Did he make Jackson look bad? Sure. But, come on, he had the biggest pop star in the world, who has been accused of child molestation, bragging about sharing his bed with children on camera. What was he supposed to do with that footage? Not put it in? That would have been disingenuous.

People were mad Bashir didn't make Jackson look "normal". Yeah, not even the best editing team in the world could have pulled that one off.

Oh, I agree that MJ didn't help matters. But I think it would've been funny for South Park to spoof how opportunistic Bashir was. Keeping the footage of MJ as a good dad might not have helped, it's just I find it very cynical and exploitative that Bashir would engage Michael's trust and then edit all of that stuff out.

 

[Ed Wood Caulfield]

Bashir did come across as a snake in the post-documentary interviews that I saw. If anything, the documentary actually made me feel sorry for MJ.

FWIW, I don't think that MJ ever did anything to any kids. The timing of the second allegations always seemed a little strange to me. How did that 2nd kid go from talking about how much he loved Michael and how Michael saved him from dying of cancer and how he was holding his hand and putting his head on his shoulders in the documentary...to 10 months later claming that Michael molested him? I always found it funny how that kid didn't mention anything bad about MJ until the documentary came out and everyone was talking about his scenes in it. Plus, didn't that kid also accuse other people of molesting him in the past? I thought that I heard that somewhere.

I do think that Michael Jackson was a naive man who didn't or wouldn't grasp how the real world works. And he put his trust in the wrong people (like Martin Bashir). I pitied him.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

The sad thing is, the most positive thing that MJ did during this timeframe, his 9/11 memorial song with a whole bunch of celebrities, got ZERO mainstream coverage. Absolutely ZERO press.

That's because it never actually got released and there was a whole ensuing scandal around that. Sony said they refused to release it because the executive producer was a former gay porn director and they felt it would distract from the message. Michael Jackson said they refused to release it because they were racist.

...of course, the song kind of sucked even by charity song standards.

 

[Ed Wood Caulfield]

Do you think he'd have surgery if his face hadn't caught on fire?

Nah, he was having surgeries before that. If he didn't look so much like the father he hated and looked more like his mom instead, he might of never had the surgeries.

I thought the surgeries started because he hated having acne when he hit puberty. There's this one scene in that Jackson 5 TV movie that came out in 1992 that VH1 plays all the time where MJ is complaining about how he looks and how he went to the mall and this girl said "Ew." when she saw him. And that was apparently supposed to show that he thought about changing his looks even when he was a teenager.

Speaking of movies, we all know that a Michael Jackson biopic will hit movie theaters worldwide eventually. It will probably be as long as the Gandhi biopic was, because I just don't think you can do his life story in a 90 minute film. So the question becomes who could play Michael Jackson in a movie? Jamie Foxx?

 

[atticus Chaos]

Bashir did come across as a snake in the post-documentary interviews that I saw. If anything, the documentary actually made me feel sorry for MJ.

FWIW, I don't think that MJ ever did anything to any kids. The timing of the second allegations always seemed a little strange to me. How did that 2nd kid go from talking about how much he loved Michael and how Michael saved him from dying of cancer and how he was holding his hand and putting his head on his shoulders in the documentary...to 10 months later claming that Michael molested him? I always found it funny how that kid didn't mention anything bad about MJ until the documentary came out and everyone was talking about his scenes in it. Plus, didn't that kid also accuse other people of molesting him in the past? I thought that I heard that somewhere.

I do think that Michael Jackson was a naive man who didn't or wouldn't grasp how the real world works. And he put his trust in the wrong people (like Martin Bashir). I pitied him.

Bashir was two faced (this is obvious in the film itself, particularly when he's being all friendly with Jackson and then you hear his voice over mention how suspicious of Jackson he is.) But apart from that, he's just asking Jackson what anyone else would ask: What is going on with your face? Why do you share you bed with children? Do you realize how that looks? Why don't your children have mother's? Pretty straightfoward questions. Jackson makes himself look bad with his answers.

I agree Bashir did set out to make a name for himself, but come on, he didn't have to edit it together to make Jackson look like a weirdo. He was one. Bashir did a character study and aired the results. That's all. For all the talk of it being a burial, I think they allowed Jackson to look quite sympathetic for most of it and Bashir gave him a chance to explain himself at the end. He didn't just show the footage of Jackson saying he slept with children, and then not allow Jackson to give an explanation for it.

Jackson wanted a vanity piece. But his behaviour made that impossible. Even the follow up documentary, which was made to answer Bashir's film, and was a vanity piece, he still came off looking bad because even the people that were praising him were like "well, yeah he's incredibly weird, but..."

 

[pbone]

Did Michael Jackson write his own songs?

 

[BUTT]

Most of them. On Thriller he wrote "Billie Jean" and "Beat It" along with a couple of others. On the later albums he had a hand in writing almost every song, which may explain why the quality suffered so greatly on HIStory and Invincible. He would often talk of writing like 70 songs for each album and then narrowing it down to the best 14 or so, which is a scary thought because some of his song in the last 15 years were pretty damn bad.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yeah,when he took the role of principal songwriter on his albums that's when he jumped the shark. The best songs (well, really the only good ones) on HIStory and Invincible were co-written with someone else.

I never thought the quality of his singles dropped dramatically. Even the ones on his later albums were pretty damn solid. But the quality of the album tracks got worse with each record after Off The Wall (which I still think is his one album that's quality from start to finish---even like "Girlfriend").

You know what album I've always thought was kind of underrated (despite the fact that it sold like 10 gajillion copies)? Dangerous. Wouldn't give it over the edge over Off The Wall and Thriller but I think it's a definite improvement over Bad and eons better than his last two.

 

[Ed Wood Caulfield]

The sad thing is, the most positive thing that MJ did during this timeframe, his 9/11 memorial song with a whole bunch of celebrities, got ZERO mainstream coverage. Absolutely ZERO press.

That's because it never actually got released and there was a whole ensuing scandal around that. Sony said they refused to release it because the executive producer was a former gay porn director and they felt it would distract from the message. Michael Jackson said they refused to release it because they were racist.

...of course, the song kind of sucked even by charity song standards.

We all know that "We Are The World" is the standard bearer for charity songs, and that nothing will ever come close to it, but even with knowing all of that, I didn't think that "What More Can I Give" was that bad. It was certainly better than the 9/11 memorial song that *did* get released, that awful cover of "What's Going On?" by a whole bunch of celebrities that ironically wasn't even recorded for 9/11, but to fight AIDS in Africa!

I do feel bad for MJ because he went through all of that trouble getting all of those celebrities, writing, recording the song (he even did it in Spanish!), producing it, and then finds out that he can't release it. He just wanted to do his part to get America back on its feet!

And the worst charity song ever is definitely the song done for Hurricane Katrina relief. That one didn't get any airplay whatsoever.

 

[MFer]

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWcgng5-ES4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fniketalk%2Eyuku%2Ecom%2Ftopic%2F192462%2Ft%2FSo%2Dthis%2Dis%2Dwhat%2DMichael%2DJackson%2Dhas%2Dbeen%2Dholding%2Dfrom%2Dus%2Ehtml%3Fpage%3D1&feature=player_embedded[/flash]

 

[BruiserBrody]

MJ wanted to look like Elvis via plastic surgery? Didn't know that one.

 

[CBright7831]

Despite the obvious lip synching - this is probably my favorite MJ performance -

Michael Jackson (w/ Slash) - Greatest Hits Medley @ the 1995 MTV Video Music Awards

The first 5 minutes and 30 seconds are simply awesome.

 

[AA484]

Michael Jackson was murdered?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090824/ap_en_ot/us_michael_jackson_investigation

By THOMAS WATKINS, Associated Press Writer Thomas Watkins, Associated Press Writer – 57 mins ago

LOS ANGELES – The Los Angeles County coroner has ruled Michael Jackson's death a homicide, a law enforcement official told The Associated Press, a finding that makes it more likely criminal charges will be filed against the doctor who was with the pop star when he died.

The coroner determined a fatal combination of drugs was given to Jackson hours before he died June 25 in his rented Los Angeles mansion, according to the official who spoke on condition of anonymity because the findings have not been publicly released. Forensic tests found the powerful anesthetic propofol acted together with at least two sedatives to cause Jackson's death, the official said.

Dr. Conrad Murray, a Las Vegas cardiologist who became Jackson's personal physician weeks before his death, is the target of a manslaughter investigation by the Los Angeles Police Department. According to a search warrant affidavit unsealed Monday in Houston, Murray told investigators he administered a 25 mg dose of propofol around 10:40 a.m. after spending the night injecting Jackson with two sedatives in an unsuccessful attempt to get him to sleep.

The warrant, dated July 23, states that lethal levels of propofol were found in Jackson's system. Besides the propofol and two sedatives, the coroner's toxicology report found other substances in Jackson's system but they were not believed to have been a factor in the singer's death, the official said.

Murray has spoken to police and last week released a video saying he "told the truth and I have faith the truth will prevail." His attorney, Edward Chernoff, had no immediate comment but has previously said Murray never administered anything that "should have" killed Jackson.

A call to the coroner's office was not returned Monday.

Murray did not say anything about the drugs he gave to Jackson.

 

[atticus Chaos]

They'll probably end up charging the doctor with manslaughter instead. I assume he wasn't trying kill Jackson, even if it is his fault.

Kind of interesting that while everyone is making a huge fuss of the whole "mark doctor" element of this, it isn't a surprise to anyone with an interest in pro wrestling.

 

[Mazto]

Yeah, the doc will get hit with Manslaughter lose his license then write a tell all in three years when he's out on good behavior.

 

[atticus Chaos]

Yeah, the doc will get hit with Manslaughter lose his license then write a tell all in three years when he's out on good behavior.

Well, he did kill Michael Jackson, and Jackson had a lot of crazy fans, so this Doctor is probably going to be looking over his should for the rest of his life. Also, I can see the courts trying to make an example of Murray, to put off other celebrity doctors. So, he might be going away for a long time.

I think the people who pressured Jackson to do 50 concerts are also to blame for this. The guy was a physical wreck and in no condition to do that many dates. I've read that towards the end Jackson realised it too; but he wasn't able to get out of it.

 

[fazzle]

The identity of the serial pillist is finally revealed!

 

[CBright7831]

Oh dear...

 

[BruiserBrody]

http://www.unknownhighway.com/images/uploads/michael_jacksons_corpse.jpg

MJ's bald battered corpse supposedly

 

[Big Green]

http://ww2.lasuperiorcourt.org/hp/b3uve0qnq5h42555zkyf3m45/1469924003.pdf

That's the juror's survey for the Conrad Murray trial. A lot of shockingly personal questions in there.

 

[Brocklock]

His legend will live forever

The Simpsons - Legend of the Dog faced woman

 

[MFer]

Hey um...that verdict's about to come down right now.

And it's guilty. And I don't give a shit.

 

[Gary]

The doctor was found guilty.

 

[still fly]

Yeah, the doc will get hit with Manslaughter lose his license then write a tell all in three years when he's out on good behavior.

WINNER!

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I listened to HIStory: Past, Present, and Future for the first time in years and I actually liked it a lot better than I remembered. It's still quite the step down from his previous albums but I was a lot more forgiving of the filler more this time. If you take it as the painkiller induced ramblings of an angry manchild, it's kind of enjoyable. I even liked the song about Tom Sneddon. And I always that the singles were pretty great for the most part. "Stranger in Moscow" and "You Are Not Alone" are probably two of my favorite ballads of his.

I still don't like "Earth Song" (or the theme from Free Willy 2 though. No wonder why Jarvis Cocker tried to rush the stage and moon Mike when MJ performed that song at some British award show.

Michael Jackson - History (Lyrics)
I mean this is obviously the works of someone who was high off his gourd and thought he was creating the "A Day in The Life" of the '90s.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

*bump*

I got the 25th Anniversary of Bad for Christmas. Listening to it again, I'm almost willing to agree with the argument that this album is on the same level as Off The Wall or Thriller. The high points aren't as high as those albums (or arguably Dangerous) but there's also not a weak track on here whereas the other have a couple ("Girlfriend" on Off The Wall, "The Girl is Mine" and "The Lady in My Life" on Thriller). I think a lot of people find it overly calculated and the production sometimes screams "This is Top 40 radio circa 1987" occasionally but I think this is what a big pop album should sound like. A little bit of everything but not a lot of any one particular thing.

 

[SFH]

Earlier this week, I guess lost in the holiday hoopla, TMZ released MJ's driver's license from 2005 (set to expire in 2010). The man has been dead 3.5 years now. Why does TMZ think this is relevant now? I mean aside from being TMZ. This just seems like more pointless shit than usual for them.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

http://culturecrossfire.com/music/deep-discount-discussions-the-jacksons-victory/#.U67SS_ldXd4
I look back at Michael's last album as frontman of The Jacksons, Victory on the week of its 30th Anniversary (and on the week of the 5th Anniversary of MJ's passing)

 

[MFer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIWSyUHD_nk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_mcPl8xlr0