Microsoft Prattle v2

[Sabre]

I think the main thing people had a problem with was the online check. Constant internet isn't always possible due to breakdowns in the line, server issues and people whom simply have no internet (had to believe it still exists).

They should handle it that if you try to launch a game on demand, we get a phone home to authenticate. Ok no internet = no use of downloaded games, but its better than locking out the entire system, disk based can be played at any time.

 

[bps21]

The check in is the thing that they've never even come close to making me understand the need for.

I understand independent concepts of it...like...it's doing what a disc does when you put it in...telling the console you own the game. Get it...but why does the system have to stop playing everything if the internet is down for 24 hours and one minute? Or...they want you to be online so you can access the cloud computing that's driving some game development. Ok...makes sense...until you realize that those games can't be offline for even a second or they can't do that so what's the point of the check in? Titanfall is always online...it doesn't matter if I checked in or not it won't play without an internet connection. That's a separate developer choice from a console choice. So why the check in? And even the "it keeps all your patches and apps up to date for you" is something that sounds cool and all...but it's pretty much going to have to do that whenever I connect anyway...so why does that mean I can't play a game that doesn't have any patches anyway?

 

[KingPK]

I think it was more the perception that they weren't budging at all on their plans (the "Don't have internet? Get a 360" thing) that made it seem like people were being forced to change with the times before they're ready. Now MS has completely caved to the pressure and both companies are probably afraid of moving forward to avoid the ensuing shitstorm.

 

[Sabre]

In all honesty i think the online authentication was solely because of how easy the 360 was pirated.

Up until 2009 the 360 did ban waves every november and since then they have not bothered since, personally i believe it is because they stopped caring, pirates still bought DLC and XBL so they made money.

The "insert code and authenticate" ruled out any possibility of pirate games being loaded without some kind of spoof being invented where the xbox believes it has phoned home.

 

[bps21]

Regardless of these policies or the old or their good or bad qualities...in the end it is kind of sad that we have to make our entertainment steps only as far as the lowest user can go. The people looking towards the future being held down by the people clinging to the past and all that. Shouldn't I want a console for the next generation that requires modern technology like a constant high speed internet connection and cloud computing? Of course Microsoft didn't do themselves any favors in setting harsh penalties if something out of your control happens...but don't I want game makers taking advantage of these things instead of being afraid to develop anything that doesn't fit into a box that has to play by the same rules as the one we were using 25 years ago?

 

[Sabre]

The UK isnt ready for either of the Xbox or the PS4 in terms of what they want us to do online. The average speed in the UK is around 6-8mb/s which say a game is a 30gb file, you are potentially talking a full day worth of downloading.

This coupled with the usage caps alot of our providers have (which cripples your speed to maybe 100kb/s during peak times aka when most people have time to play games/use the net) cloud gaming is not really plausible as of yet.

Yes we have some providers whom have very high speed internet, but it is not nationwide, and the cost is too high for the average user.

 

[bps21]

That plays into what I think Microsoft is going to go back into their tent and start talking about. They tried to push too far too fast, explained none of it even close to well, and now have to figure out how to bring these ideas along more naturally.

 

[Exslade ZX]

Regardless of these policies or the old or their good or bad qualities...in the end it is kind of sad that we have to make our entertainment steps only as far as the lowest user can go. The people looking towards the future being held down by the people clinging to the past and all that. Shouldn't I want a console for the next generation that requires modern technology like a constant high speed internet connection and cloud computing? Of course Microsoft didn't do themselves any favors in setting harsh penalties if something out of your control happens...but don't I want game makers taking advantage of these things instead of being afraid to develop anything that doesn't fit into a box that has to play by the same rules as the one we were using 25 years ago?

The fact is, if you want a high speed internet connected gaming machine...Get a PC.

That is not what home game consoles are supposed to be. They are supposed to be a cheaper/reasonable alternative. That are far more easily accessible (and in some cases portable). I was being sarcastic but the truth is the closer and closer these consoles get to just being PC knockoffs, Why not! just get a PC instead. The great thing about being a gamer, is that if I want..I can pull out my N64 and play No Mercy if I want to. Or I can pull out my PS1, or Nintendo etc you get my point and play it. Mainly referring to the always online deal, you're telling me in the coming years once we enter the next, next generation and they stop supporting it, I will no longer have access to the console I paid for? And I will have to simply rely on the fact that they are going to release the games I want to play as 'Classics' (that I will have to pay for again) in the future?

I get the forward thinking. Which is fine. But once you start putting limitations on what I can do with my property then there's a problem.

 

[Sabre]

Ironic that Xbox one demos ran on windows 7 at E3.

 

[bps21]

I thought that had already been debunked as the Lococycle game from Twisted Pixel being the only one that did that.

 

[Broward83]

Man, call me simple or tech ignorant, but fuck a gaming PC. Video cards are how much? Not simple ones, the high end let me run Crysis kind. Oh wait, I need to have this awesome RAM to really speed it up..oh, it only works on this type of MoBo? Alright..wait! I need a kick ass soundcard too...there, spent a few hundred.

oh, I need a monitor...or, I can rearrange everything to hook it up to my TV.

oh, that awesome video card has issues with a certain game or OS? Oh.

Yeah, fuck that. Let me drop what I need to on my XB1, hook it up and not worry about shit for close to a decade.

 

[vivisectvi]

The talk for a while now has been pushing consoles more toward being mini gaming PCs.. and gaming PC's to be more living room friendly like a console.. I think this is the middle ground - and personally I love it (the power of the machines not the drm/online restrictions).

--

Funny about all of the anti XBOX sentiment that Gamestop had been putting out lately, as soon as MS announces this change I get a "Breaking News: Changes to XBOX ONE! Pre-order now" eblast from GS.

 

[AnonymousBroccoli]

Man, call me simple or tech ignorant, but fuck a gaming PC. Video cards are how much? Not simple ones, the high end let me run Crysis kind. Oh wait, I need to have this awesome RAM to really speed it up..oh, it only works on this type of MoBo? Alright..wait! I need a kick ass soundcard too...there, spent a few hundred.

oh, I need a monitor...or, I can rearrange everything to hook it up to my TV.

oh, that awesome video card has issues with a certain game or OS? Oh.

Yeah, fuck that. Let me drop what I need to on my XB1, hook it up and not worry about shit for close to a decade.

Crysis 3 will run on a sub-$100 video card. Maybe not at the highest resolutions, or with all of the fancy shit turned on. But it would probably be comparable to current console performance. Probably a little better.

Generally speaking, RAM is RAM. Unless you want to get into overclocking or use an AMD APU (and you probably don't for a gaming machine), it won't matter. And just about everything these days uses DDR3.

If you're buying today—again, excepting the higher end—the only thing your motherboard wouldn't widely support is the CPU.

Most motherboards come with entirely adequate sound processing for most people.

It's maybe not ideal to hook it up to a TV, but there are smaller cases, wireless stuff, etc. Video and audio is just HDMI, like most things hooked up to the TV.

Video card and OS compatibility... Yeah, that happens. Not super often, I don't think. Usually has to do with running an old game on a new OS, or video card drivers not being fully optimized with brand new games. These days, a lot of that stuff will be updated automatically by Steam, or Windows Update.

 

[Exslade ZX]

Your average person...has no idea what any of that means lol.

Hence the need for a simple home gaming machine. And not a 'Mini PC'.

 

[AnonymousBroccoli]

Yeah, that's fine. PC gaming's just not as complicated or expensive as some people will make it out to be. And there are a lot of options available. (But too many options can be confusing.)

Admittedly, I am reasonably tech savvy. I know the difference between a CPU, a GPU, and an APU, but if I were to mention any of those things to most people I know, they'd give me a blank stare. It does take some work to learn the stuff, whereas a console... traditionally is simpler. Still is, to a certain degree, but they're definitely increasing in complexity.

That was one of my beefs with the old Xbox One policies: They were ridiculously complicated for a console.

 

[bps21]

The blame is totally on Microsoft for first setting horribly restricting policies that caused too much change (you can't use the console at all if you haven't connected to the net? Whoever came up with that should be fired) and then, when they tried to appease some people before E3 they released the most confusing list of rules of all time. You can give your game to someone...if they've been on your friends list for 30 days...and you can never get it back... WTF? Fire that guy too.

Here's what they should have done:

1. You want to buy a disc, buy a disc. It plays all the time no matter if you've never connect online (the single player elements obviously) and everything about the disc based experience is the exact same as it's always been. Lend them, rent them, sell them, buy used...we give zero fucks since this has all been done since the dawn of games.

2. If you prefer though...buy them digitally instead and they'll always be there for you. You can take play them on any console since they're tied to your profile. You can have the family sharing which is still a great idea that is better than lending a disc since I lent Skyrim to a friend over a year ago and that shit is just gone...with this I can still play it and one person in my circle at a time can too. This method doesn't support a used games market...but you know that going in...and you can still just buy a used disc for that game and follow the disc path.

So there are different rules for disc vs. digital...but it's up to you how you want them. Mix and match buy Madden on a disc and Titanfall digitally...who gives a fuck. The disc does what a disc does...digital does the following: And then lay out the pros and cons.

The first method lacked options. The new one limits the digital option. Eventually I assume they'll figure out the happy medium.

 

[Exslade ZX]

So basically what Netflix did with Discs vs Digital. Which is now an almost completely digital service.

That is exactly what they should have done. But as you said, apparently there were a few people that needed to be let go who were at the helm of some poor ideas.

 

[bps21]

The netflix model is the perfect example. A company wanted to move people towards digital and they did it. And xbox would be easier to do it...since unlike netflix...every game would be available that way whereas netflix only has so many movie and tv shows streaming.

 

[AnonymousBroccoli]

Netflix would be a tough comparison, just because they've always been a rental service with a monthly fee. Everything they do is temporary. It's also quite cheap for what they're giving you.

The only real drawbacks to streaming vs. discs (I'll assume Blu-ray) is potentially picture and sound quality, extra features, and diversity of the catalogue.

 

[bps21]

I don't think the price of console gaming vs, video rental matters. What matters is the price between blockbuster style renting vs. netflix and buying a game at best buy vs. buying from the dashboard. Those were constants that the new way had to be compared with. People are already as used to paying 60 dollars for a game as they were to paying 4 bucks for a rental.

The comparison is offering two ways to do the same thing until people realize that one way (the way you want them to do it) is more convenient and just better. Netflix accomplished that...Microsoft doesn't have the foggiest idea to to start presenting it.

They need to offer both until people realize...hey...I have an Internet connection and this way is so much easier. And it's on Microsoft to make the digitial way more appealing. Today they took steps to make it less appealing.

 

[2GOLD]

After how long it just took me to get Batman AC to download, yeah, they did not make digital downloads of big games an alternative to me. You just are not going to win over a lot of people with the check in shit either, that is going to cause problems. I mean, having a console that is basically doa if you don't have internet for a period of time is not a good alternative either.

 

[KingPK]

Plus, if your ISP has some sort of data cap, you may end up paying overage fees if all you do is stream and download games. Though the rumored fix to that is "Buy unlimited service through Comcast and get an XBox One for $200!"

There needs to be some happy medium where you can look to the future while still servicing what consumers want now. Microsoft missed that target again today.

 

[bps21]

I feel like if they would have just called any of us into a room...explained what they want to do and what people want the option to do...every single one of us could have laid out a simple way to do it that would have made everyone happy.

Meanwhile they're on strike 2 (though admittedly less people are upset today than were yesterday).

 

[KingPK]

It just feels like MS threw out the baby with the bathwater; they originally thought "People will get right on board with this!", but their shitty messaging turned against them and now they think "Oh no, NOBODY wants this! Blow it all up!" when there are actually some good ideas buried in the hole they dug themselves.

 

[AnonymousBroccoli]

With Netflix vs. disc rental, it's still a temporary service, and people know that. Digital "ownership" is in a dodgy state for now, and it's definitely not objectively better, or even easier in all cases.

 

[bps21]

It just feels like MS threw out the baby with the bathwater; they originally thought "People will get right on board with this!", but their shitty messaging turned against them and now they think "Oh no, NOBODY wants this! Blow it all up!" when there are actually some good ideas buried in the hole they dug themselves.

It's funny you say it that way because I started to come around on some concepts...and none of it was from anything microsoft said. It was from doing a lot of reading from third party gaming sites from people either talking with game developers or deciphering the ridiculous Microsoft code of riddles. Even then there were aspects I didn't quite understand the need for. I can take two independant concepts like digital sharing and 24 hour check ins...and understand each but not make the connection on them together. That's their job lol...explain to me why you are doing this or why x begets y. You had to put in work on your own to start painting a picture of what they were doing...

And once you did that they changed it lol

 

[Sabre]

In regards to the windows 7 running Xbox one:

Microsoft came out and said that some of its dev kits are infact windows 7 pcs with Ncidia GTX cards.

 

[oldskool]

Pasta Padre is reporting from an anonymous MS source (so take with a fuckton of salt) that the "family share" plan was essentially extended demos limited to 15-45 minutes.

 

[Edwin]

Is that a real name or a family restaurant.

 

[Exslade ZX]

"The premise is simple and elegant, when you buy your games for Xbox One, you can set any of them to be part of your shared library. Anyone who you deem to be family had access to these games regardless of where they are in the world. There was never any catch to that, they didn’t have to share the same billing address or physical address it could be anyone. When your family member accesses any of your games, they’re placed into a special demo mode. This demo mode in most cases would be the full game with a 15-45 minute timer and in some cases an hour. This allowed the person to play the game, get familiar with it then make a purchase if they wanted to. When the time limit was up they would automatically be prompted to the Marketplace so that they may order it if liked the game. We were toying around with a limit on the number of times members could access the shared game (as to discourage gamers from simply beating the game by doing multiple playthroughs). but we had not settled on an appropriate way of handling it."

So their one neat idea...really wasn't as neat as it sounded at all.

http://www.heyuguysgaming.com/news/12507/heartbroken-xbox-one-employee-lets-rip-must-read