Old School Observations and Questions, 2024

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

TIL Harley Race won his last World Championship in Puerto Rico in 1990 (34 years ago today).

More impressive than him winning a semi major title at the age of 47 is the fact that he did it wearing his singlet backwards!

 

[snuffbox]

Was that to cover the scar?

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Maybe? He wrestled the scar exposed when he came back to WWF in late ‘88.

 

[snuffbox]

It was weird that it was visible on WWF tv. Also weird that he didn't just get a new singlet that covered it and didn't have his old king logo. But a scar like that might've been just too much in Puerto Rico where a wrestling icon had just been stabbed to death a couple years earlier.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Kind of interesting to think that Harley Race was younger when he was managing Vader than Chris Jericho and The Rock are now.

First one of these posts from me in 2024.

 

[snuffbox]

Chris Jericho looks like Vince Neil. Current Vince Neil.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Chris Jericho definitely looks like a guy in his fifties. I guess it’s just to say how different guys in their fifties look now Vs how guys looked in their fifties in 1994.

 

[Valeyard]

Jericho has aged ten years since AEW started.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Maybe? He wrestled the scar exposed when he came back to WWF in late ‘88.

I was going to argue Vince was anti singlet. Bundy, Andre and the Machines were pushed in 86 with one though. Sal and Strongbow rocked it for JTTS duty

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Mr. Perfect was a guy who got his big push sheet after he switched from trunks to a singlet which is opposite of how it normally goes for Vince’s bookings

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Maybe that's why RVD never got the big push. That and injuring HHH. And stiffing people all the time. And being stoned all the time. And fucking it all up the one time he did get the big push.

 

[Valeyard]

This is just shit Ryback truthers want to believe.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744508226995912976

I found my own Twitter burner account

 

[JN News]

A few years ago, I found out that The Big Bossman had a new live non-televised matches against Yokozuna before he left the WWF for WCW. Why couldn't Bossman & Yoko have a televised match on either Superstars, Wrestling Challenge, or even RAW?

 

[BruiserBrody]

TIL Harley Race won his last World Championship in Puerto Rico in 1990 (34 years ago today).

More impressive than him winning a semi major title at the age of 47 is the fact that he did it wearing his singlet backwards!

Dibiase pod says Race chose to leave the WWF in 89 due to "road fatigue". Probably better than Race being fodder.
Race and Andre being the super team that beats Demolition instead of Haku sounds fun.

Of course if they go the Heenan Family vs Race route that's less fun. Rude's busy so it's Studd, Rooster and Race as the oddest trio of faces until Capt Mike, Abby and Norman show up a few months later.

Taylor and Race vs Brain Busters with their working boots on though? WOOT WOOT

 

[Fall of Epic]

Any reason why they didn't just have Austin drop the IC title to Rocky in a screwy finish in 1998 rather than have him just forfeit it to him? Did they feel like jobbing so soon to his Mania push would have hurt him?

 

[BruiserBrody]

Any reason why they didn't just have Austin drop the IC title to Rocky in a screwy finish in 1998 rather than have him just forfeit it to him? Did they feel like jobbing so soon to his Mania push would have hurt him?

Austin refused to job. So the forfeit was plan B

 

[JHawk]

Austin refused to job. So the forfeit was plan B

IIRC correctly, Austin's thinking was "I can't lose this close to Mania" but I could absolutely be misremembering that

 

[Fall of Epic]

I don't think Austin losing the title after loads of Nation interference would have hurt him and he could have gotten his heat back immediately after anyway. Austin and Rock wrestled on the go home Raw before Mania and Austin went over. I'm not a fan of champions jobbing in non-title matches but Steve getting his win back here after losing his IC title in a screwy fashion would have told a better story than "well whatever, you can have it".

 

[BUTT]

In the case of Austin, the original plan was for him to lose the title at the 12/7 PPV to Rocky Maivia. When he balked, a compromise was worked out where instead he got over his defiant anti-establishment role, Maivia got the title although the reasons clearly made no sense and Austin didn't have to do a job. As best we can tell, there was no heat regarding what ended up happening as everyone involved in the decision making process was comfortable with the compromise although the end result was a storyline that made no logical sense in regard to Maivia ending up with the title. The approach Austin took, basically since the current plan is for him to win the WWF title at Wrestlemania from Michaels, is that since he's headlining Mania, he didn't think it would be good for him to do a high-profile job to a heel who is just getting established as a top name like Maivia, even though no doubt the finish would have involved tons of outside interference. Not to mention that unlike in his past, his physical limitations wouldn't allow him to put on a great match in a losing effort. Whether one agrees with the logic or his side of things, and it isn't believed that he has creative control clause in his deal with Vince McMahon like Hart did, there is a logical argument that can be made if you want to take that side. Austin shouldn't be the IC champion today. He's unable to work lengthy singles matches and that title belt won't make him any more of a star than not having it. The title belt will be a big help in elevating Maivia, although he would be helped that much more as a new superstar if he actually won the belt from Austin. At the same time, the argument could be made that Austin should be protected from doing a job since he is going to headline Mania not to mention that he's currently the hottest star in the industry. Should be wrestle Maivia with his limitations, unless they had a truck parked in the aisle again as a gimmick and had D-Lo Brown going through the windshield, they would be hard pressed to have a good match. But that line of logic hardly makes sense for the second scenario.

In those days it was a big deal for a top star to a job, and Rock was simply not on Austin's level as a star. He was an upper midcarder but his real breakout was after this title win. At this point he was still the #2 guy in the Nation. Rock pinning him wouldn't have done anything for Austin. It was a pretty terrible angle but everyone came out of it more over so I can't bash it too hard. It looked ridiculous based on the standards of even two years later after Russo destroyed the sanctity of wins and losses but at the time it was smart business.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Hard to give Austin shit when Shawn had just set the record for most title reigns without losing a belt in the ring. Austin wound up with a bunch of those himself by the end of the 90s.

 

[Valeyard]

Austin was right, tbh. I don't think they had an endgame for Austin winning the title, either, and since he was going to be on top at Wrestlemania they needed to do something. It's a shame it wasn't Monsoon taking a stunner or something, but then it all worked out. The problem I had was it being total bullshit that Rock just got the title back while Owen had to win a tournament to get the title back from the same exact guy who was forced into forfieting the same exact belt a couple months before. That kinda shit bothered me a LOT.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I don’t think there is one Austin hissy fit/throwing of figurative weight that doesn’t feel somewhat justified.

Maybe you could argue not putting Scott Hall over at X-8 but how much really positive would that have done? Insisting on the heel turn in ‘01 is unpopular but it was a huge risk that I think that was worth taking.

Then again @BruiserBrody has counter arguments to justify every time Hogan told creative that “that doesn’t work for me, brother.”

 

[Valeyard]

If they'd called the audible to have Nash replace Hall, that whole thing works out better. That whole thing was so doomed anyway.

The heel turn I get from his point of view because it's something different so probably a new challenge. It's still stupid but there's at least something from a personal standpoint I can see making it fun for him.

 

[BUTT]

Fact is, up until the Cena era I guess (and there are certainly stories of him playing backstage politics), the relationship between top star and their promoter was always tense in pretty much every promotion. The top star was expected to be serviced with high quality angles and opponents so they could continue drawing money. That's why it shouldn't have been a surprise when Austin walked out in '02 - they took him from the hottest star in the business to the #4 babyface and were giving him shit angles where he was pissing mustard onto Arn Anderson. In the old days you'd just go to another territory but there was no other company and he was under contract anyway so he went home.

Backstage politics kinda got a bad rap mostly due to late 90s WCW. But like, Savage was supposed to beat HTM at Mania IV and Dibiase was going to win the tournament. But Honky said fuck that because they didn't have anything for him after he lost the title. Can you imagine garbage-ass Mania IV ending with a heel win? And Savage winning the IC belt back wouldn't have done much for him. But Savage as WWF champ drew money all year and Honky keeping the belt gave them the opportunity to make Warrior a few months later. Sometimes the wrestlers know better than the promotion.

 

[Valeyard]

I'll say forever Taker refusing to put Brock over at Unforgiven was the best thing to happen to Brock. And Taker, too.

 

[BUTT]

In that situation I can side with the promotion a little because ending the PPV with a no-contest pisses customers off and theoretically discourages them from buying in the future.

 

[Valeyard]

See I took it as showing that a regular match couldn't take the kind of fight they were prepared to bring and a rematch with something like the cell, where you get a winner, is a good decision.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

If they'd called the audible to have Nash replace Hall, that whole thing works out better. That whole thing was so doomed anyway.

If it’s Austin Vs Nash, it is probably a mess cause of the political gamesmanship. It sends a bad message to the boys if Austin puts over WCW’s master politician.

 

[Valeyard]

If it’s Austin Vs Nash, it is probably a mess cause of the political gamesmanship. It sends a bad message to the boys if Austin puts over WCW’s master politician.

Austin and Nash are cool, though, and the nWo on the whole were on their best behavior at the time. More than anything it's about Nash being much more willing to play ball with someone who he was cool with.