Old School Observations and Questions, 2024

[snuffbox]

That's not what Aaron Rodgers told me.

 

[BruiserBrody]

John McAdam committed what feels like heresy by saying Terry Funk was a disappointment as NWA champ and failed to draw as expected. Of course Funk is considered a GOAT candidate now, but I guess I can see the fans not buying into him since he had been booked as NWA champ Dory's gate keeper, blocking would be contenders from getting shots at Funk Jr.
IIRC he also won the belt as a sub for his brother, so I can see the fans feeling he weaseled his way to the title more than having earned it.
Who knew the circumstances/angle outside of Florida fans? Not sure.

The retro coverage of Chavo Classic's LA feud with Funk over the title in the Apters made me think Chavo was a much bigger deal than he actually was. That was before I fully grasped what the NWA traveling champ actually did.
I believe the WON obit for Chavo said he was bitter the rest of his career that his main event status didn't translate to other markets.

 

[BruiserBrody]

July 3 – A “minor riot” [WON 1984-07-30] occurs when the WWF debuts in Fresno, California, before 800 fans. A Sgt. Slaughter-Iron Sheik match is advertised as the main event, but Slaughter no-shows and the ring announcer informs the audience that the show is over after the Moondogs match against Billy Anderson and Steve Pardee.

WWF @ Fresno, CA – Selland Arena – July 3, 1984
The original lineup included Jimmy Snuka vs. Paul Orndorff, WWF IC Champion Tito Santana vs. Big John Studd, & Sgt. Slaughter vs. WWF Tag Team Champion Dick Murdoch
Jesse Ventura defeated Tony Garea
The Iron Sheik defeated Terry Daniels
The Moondogs defeated Billy Anderson & Steve Pardee
Big John Studd defeated Alexis Smirnoff
The Wild Samoans defeated Mr. Fuji & Tiger Chung Lee
Adrian Adonis defeated B. Brian Blair
WWF IC Champion Tito Santana defeated Paul Orndorff

 

[Valeyard]

I'd be fucking pissed too.

Really, really interested in Tito/Studd.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Idk why there wasn’t more Tito Vs big fat guy matches. Only one I can think of is Tito Santana and Jim Powers Vs Andre the Giant in a handicap match right before WrestleMania V. I think maybe there’s a Tito Vs Earthquake match on Coliseum Video too.

It seemed like really odd that they would use Tito in this role since he wasn’t even really a JTTS yet.

 

[Valeyard]

They really missed out on some interesting things. I think Tito/Studd could be the best Studd match ever just by process of elimination. But I also love the Bulldogs/Studd and Bundy match so I think the workrate midcard and the main event needed to cross paths way more.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I feel like in a perfect world, we get Bret Vs King Kong Bundy at Survivor Series ‘94.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I think Tito/Studd could be the best Studd match ever just by process of elimination.

 

[Valeyard]

Studd is likely my least favorite worker of all time, but Tito was the best worker in the company until Savage arrived. I don't think I've seen Tito have a match against a big man before, at least on that level.

 

[Hawk 34]

Not necessarily disagreeing with your stance regarding Chico being the best worker in the company prior to Savage but I would wonder who else could challenge this assertion.

I’m not counting Tiger Mask because he was a special attraction and Dynamite was a tag worker there.

We can deliberate on what we are counting as “worker” here, are we doing the Kevin Nash definition here cuz then it’s still fucking Andre by a mile.

 

[Valeyard]

Valentine and Steamboat might be the closest, but Tito delivered more consistently during his peak. That and I guess in my mind Tito is more of a WWF guy than either of them, if that makes sense.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Other contenders for best work rate guys in ‘83 to early ‘85 WWF

Greg Valentine
Bob Backlund
Don Muraco
Ricky Steamboat but only predates Macho Man by a few months. Ditto Terry Funk.

 

[Hawk 34]

Other contenders for best work rate guys in ‘83 to early ‘85 WWF

Greg Valentine
Bob Backlund
Don Muraco
Ricky Steamboat but only predates Macho Man by a few months. Ditto Terry Funk.

Wow the disrespect for Ace Orton.

 

[Valeyard]

Backlund was great but I'd never put him over Tito during that period. Muraco is awesome too but I can't put him ahead of Tito, just because he didn't have to be a workhorse in the same way.

Ace Orton never got great singles matches, seems like. I'm positive there were some, of course, but I'm blanking on any.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Wow the disrespect for Ace Orton.

The ‘82 run was one where he was presented as more of a workrate guy.

 

[strummer]

Orton worked like a .Crockett guy in the WWF. Impressive feat for an 80s wwf guy

 

[BruiserBrody]

Orton/Tito time limit draw on an early Best of the WWF.
---
Adonis needs to be in the conversation, He had a run in 82ish before coming back in 84, In 1983 IIRC the dirt sheets felt he was a top 3 guy in the country.
Even blubber Adonis was pinballing and doing top rope spots.

Snuka was also having some great brawls when the line of coke was of the right caliber that evening. Not a traditional "work rate" style.
Sarge pre-86 was a bump machine and was having good matches within his brawl heavy style.
Buddy Rose dipping in during 82ish and the early expansion would get some consideration too. I doubt there was little in his 84-85 run where they gave him enough time/story to work a classic.

 

[alkeiper]

Adonis/Murdoch were absolutely among the best working tag teams of that era.

Buddy Rose worked at least one great Backlund match that I've seen, and given his work in Portland there are certainly others. And frankly even if you gave Buddy Rose five minutes he was still entertaining.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I know Portland fans will scream foul when you bring up the fact that the Blow Away Diet gimmick is what he is known for however, only a worker as good as Buddy Rose could have made that memorable and kind of, almost work.

 

[alkeiper]

I mean Rose was a completely atypical looking WWF wrestler. He was only in that spot because he was extremely good in that role as JTTS.

 

[Hawk 34]

Is he the most notable name the company had under contract for a decent length of time to never get a PPV appearance?

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Well he worked under a hood as The Executioner at WrestleMania I.

 

[alkeiper]

Depends on if you consider Wrestlemania I a PPV. I'll suggest Iron Mike Sharpe as someone who made appearances from 1983-93 without a PPV appearance. Some other names from that era included Bob Bradley, Brady Boone, Tim Horner and Al Perez.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Fun fact: Iron Mike Sharpe was an alternate for the WrestleMania 2 WWF/NFL Battle Royal along with Lanny Poffo. They were there in some of the press conference photos, presumably to fill out the match in case any of the football players got cold feet.

That match was also Bruno and Pedro’s only PPV in-ring appearance I think.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Is he the most notable name the company had under contract for a decent length of time to never get a PPV appearance?

That's a better question for post Nov 87. Otherwise some guys only had one shot to make a show.
Pre Nov 87 the answer off the top of my head would be Dick Slater.
You can alter the answer with an asterisk for the Big Event

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I feel like The Big Event is almost as much of a PPV as WrestleMania I. It got a Coliseum Video release and is on Peacock.

Brody: WrestleMania I aired on PPV in limited markets!!!

 

[BruiserBrody]

I feel like The Big Event is almost as much of a PPV as WrestleMania I. It got a Coliseum Video release and is on Peacock.

Brody: WrestleMania I aired on PPV in limited markets!!!

I shall DQ it on the grounds that it wasn't supposed to be a mega show until the ticket sales boomed out of nowhere and they added the snazzy sub title to the event.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

OVP just covered the era. It wasn’t hyped on TV at all. I assume the cameras were there to tape stuff for PTW and Coliseum Video garbage time and when they realized how huge it was, they capitalized and released the entire event.

Nothing on the card except maybe the Snake Pit match stands out from what they would din at a normal Maple Leaf Gardens show. Even the main event feels kind of house show-y (but good!! Calm @BruiserBrody ).

 

[BruiserBrody]

OVP just covered the era. It wasn’t hyped on TV at all. I assume the cameras were there to tape stuff for PTW and Coliseum Video garbage time and when they realized how huge it was, they capitalized and released the entire event.

Nothing on the card except maybe the Snake Pit match stands out from what they would din at a normal Maple Leaf Gardens show. Even the main event feels kind of house show-y (but good!! Calm @BruiserBrody ).

WWF House Show (Jun 26, 88' no.2)

The WWF House Show is a House show produced by the World Wrestling Federation on June 26, 1988 at the Pontiac Silverdome in Pontiac, Michigan. (c) refers to the champion(s) heading into the match. The Fabulous Rougeaus (Jacques Rougeau and Raymond Rougeau) defeated Los Conquistadores...

prowrestling.fandom.com

I was just listening to a Between the Sheets from spring 88. Andre returned to the Silverdome (in the limited set up) teaming with Rude to face Ol Hacksaw and Jake the Snake..... and it only drew 1000!

So in a little over a year they dropped 77 thousand fans from one arena. That is an impressive feat!!

 

[Valeyard]

That's still like 998 more people than Crockett drew.