Old School Observations and Questions, 2024

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

From all accounts from people who actually watched WWF at the time, they definitely kept the title on Backlund for at least a year or two long. It might have been better to break it up with another transitional reign or two before Hogan came in as the conquering hero.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Better off dropping it to Bruno.

Man, that's a fun world. Vince forgoes Hogan to put the belt on Bruno because he was the man before and dammit can bring in a new era.

I mean AWA Champ Verne was 55 in 81, So that would equate to Bruno winning the belt at WM 2 or so.

 

[Valeyard]

Verne wasn't trying to take over the world, though.

 

[BruiserBrody]

If the

Verne wasn't trying to take over the world, though.

Technically.... sort of..... He invaded Los Angeles and got into a territorial war in the later 70s. (He did eventually go back and run the west coast semi regular) He bought into Chicago. He bought into St Louis. He was aligned with Boesch and Baba. He even had a Canada strongpoint (Winnipeg) until Jan 86 when Lanza and others screwed him out of the local TV. He was also tied to the Montreal office. I'm probably forgetting some of his moves.

He had merch, video tapes, board games, figures, books and stickers for kids to collect once 1984 signaled war.

Verne was too slow on the wrestler contracts, and booked a far more dull product, especially once Vince snagged most of his prime talent with charisma. By 86 Verne's core was full of guys not loyal to him (Brody, Hansen, Slaughter, Freebirds, Road Warriors, The Fabs and even Martel), old man Bock, Groovy Greg who was over pushed by necessity, and future stars who weren't ready for prime time (Rockers, Hall, Hennig).
Jerry Blackwell was a big draw in 85, but apparently wasn't getting paid to his liking as he went back to GA and started a indy instead of staying in the AWA for the most part. His health failing him played a part, but Jerry was working into almost 1990.

I don't know if Mick Karch or The Authority ever pinpointed $$$ issues other than the Minnesota state lawsuit over the land by the lake, but there certainly seems to be some sort of "all in" effort for WrestleRock (with no PPV or CC attached to help max profits) because as soon as Wrestlerock concludes, the talent just vanishes. No more Sarge, Race, Fabs, Warriors, Freebirds, etc
Even with the bloated show, guys like Leon White who was getting a upper mid card push at the time didn't get on the show.
Legend Mad Dog Vachon was doing AWA shots for certain promoters at the same time, but Verne would not book him for anything due to heat for Vachon leaving him in 84.
Ken Resnick quit for the WWF due to what he perceived as being slighted at Wrestlerock. I guess he thought he was Mean Gene, not a geek.
--
Verne was probably double screwed once the Wrestlemania 1, Starrcade and LJN Doll money started rolling in and he was still running spot shows in Sheboygan. He went from running 75 percent of the country in 85 to only doing paid shows and TV by 87 by and large.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

You Can't See Meme: Simpsons Wrestling Memes + News | Low effort, but there’s been a lot of negative or toxic posts in here this week (my posts included) | Facebook

Low effort, but there’s been a lot of negative or toxic posts in here this week (my posts included). So I’m doing my part to combat the negativity. Also, the torture rack is a very underrated finish....

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Nice to have some positive wrestling content once in a while.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I seem to vaguely remember an angle in WCW where Jimmy Hart turned heel on Hogan, and was taking advantage of the Power of Attorney that Hogan granted him to screw Hogan over. What would be the kayfabe reason for why anybody would grant Jimmy Hart POA ever again, after what he did to the Hart Foundation?

 

[JHawk]

I seem to vaguely remember an angle in WCW where Jimmy Hart turned heel on Hogan, and was taking advantage of the Power of Attorney that Hogan granted him to screw Hogan over. What would be the kayfabe reason for why anybody would grant Jimmy Hart POA ever again, after what he did to the Hart Foundation?

Hogan was way too trusting which is why most of his friends turned on him.

Dude teamed with Savage in WCW after the Mega Powers Explode deal. He was gullible AF

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

At least it played into the early stages of the nWo division.

Of course, that ended up being shit, but it at least showed some long term thinking.

 

[Valeyard]

And it's just a different universe, really.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1777924568688030103

Wrestling might be fake.

 

[JN News]

Is it true that one of Jim Crockett's biggest business errors was giving nearly ALL of the major titles in the NWA to The Four Horsemen?

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

It could be argued as such, sure. Fans don't react well when every show is "lol heels win," and couple that with regular usage of the Dusty Finish? You've got a recipe for fans to stop thinking your product is worth the monetary investment.

 

[JN News]

Is it true that Vince McMahon owned the whole "Hart Foundation" thing from 1997 where Vince wouldn't allow them to continue their faction in WCW, even if Bischoff would have interest in signing Owen Hart, as well?

 

[BruiserBrody]

JCP's problem was mostly money gambles that failed, along with a product that cooled.

They bought up TV and smaller companies instead of just letting them die, gave Vince a million for TBS instead of wheeling and dealing with Turner, kept an accountant who couldn't handle the expanded business books and didn't turn over enough of the talent to keep fans invested.
The oil economy issues had to hurt JCP more than WWF as well, just based on where the fan bases were.

The big idea was to gobble up TV time and sell major ad time, and it didn't work. They ran a ton of stadium shows for the GAB that drew super poorly and lost money, they paid a premium for talent and yet didn't give the talent merch kickbacks so the talent was pissy anyway and so on.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Video

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With New Japan blocking youtube videos from posting the classic stuff it has been a bit since I've seen an Inoki vintage clash.

I love the Inoki theme. Just love it. (Yeah, I know he stole it from Ali) Inoki and the young boys struggling to get through the tiny entranceway with the crowd goes bonkers is great.

Inoki circles and circles this insane man who wants to drink his blood. Abby is more Kung Fu Abby than forks and blades Abby. Ending is what you expect from Japan from the era.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

Is it true that Vince McMahon owned the whole "Hart Foundation" thing from 1997 where Vince wouldn't allow them to continue their faction in WCW, even if Bischoff would have interest in signing Owen Hart, as well?

I honestly don't think WCW would've had them faction up anyway, even if Vince didn't own the trademark for that name. Best case scenario, IMO, they would've been together for like 3-4 months but:

#1: Bret was too big a star to just saddle him with the Hart Foundation group again in another promotion and no way Bischoff would've made them faces against the nWo. I think they would've ended up like Raven's Flock in being a faction in name only after a while. A large part of what made it work in the WWF was that they could also work off guys like HHH, Legion of Doom, The Patriot, etc. so it wasn't purely the top level talent. In WCW no way was Hogan going to be working DBS or Owen or Neidhart and I don't really see Nash or Luger doing that either. Maybe Savage, Hall, or Sting would have but they'd be one-off Nitro matches not PPV bouts.

#2: Owen definitely would've been shunted down the card. At best he'd be in that Benoit/Booker T/DDP US Title area but realistically he would've ended up in the cruiser weight title area with Dean Malenko, Eddie, Jericho, Juvie, etc. Maybe he could've worked some programs with Jericho to get up to the TV Title but if you thought he was glass ceiling'd in WWF, lol... it would've been worse in WCW.

#3: Neidhart was largely a nobody in WCW. Davey Boy could've been a piece but I think he would've just gotten lost in the shuffle of wrestlers and there were others like Scott Steiner, Buff Bagwell, etc. who were of a similar build that took over the spots he could've gotten on the card mostly because they had more charisma.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

It is weird how much DBS’ stock fell in a year and half that he went from being WCW’s first choice to be the fourth member of the nWo to a “Yeah…I guess we’ll take him.” throw in for the Bret deal.

 

[Valeyard]

If they could've been together, it's an obscene mistake not to try. At that point you have one of the hottest acts your competition had at your disposal. It's throwing money away not to make that effort, just based on the potential to break into Canada alone. If a scenario where you got Owen too happened, you do it immediately. Keep Bret happy and at worst into his own pocket workrate universe.

Owen would've fared decently because literally everyone loved him and he would never be a threat to anyone in any circumstance. At best he's a Jarrett, at worst he's probably overused in the midcard to where he stalls the rise of Booker or Jericho due to the top guys' fear of them being over. But Coach Owen with Team Canada or something would've been wonderful.

Bulldog was dogshit when he got to WCW. You watch him and you can see he just can't be bothered to give a fuck for various reasons, and you can get around that for a while but putting him with Anvil --who was in the same boat-- with no direction made it worse. If you put them all together, it definitely makes them try a little harder even if the results will be dramatically less than they had been. But again Bulldog's biggest value at the time would be to help break into international markets.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Revisiting 2000 WXO Wrestling Episode #1 Ted DiBiase’s Family Friendly Wrestling Promotion - DEADLOCK: A Pro Wrestling Podcast

The DEADLOCK Podcast is an off-the-rails retrospective look at pro wrestling's highest & lowest points hosted by James Darnell, Anthony Douglas, & John Blud. Formerly the present, currently the past, sometimes the future - this podcast has seemed to do it all when it comes to the landscape of...

pca.st

What was WXO supposed to stand for? Wrestling Hugs & Kisses?

 

[BruiserBrody]

I think Davey was sort of exposed in retrospect as a guy who could be carried to crazy good matches but for some reason didn't have it in him to carry a lesser talent to something great.
i guess there is a random Warlord match or something that is the exception to the rule.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

There was a great DBS-Haku match on a Coliseum Video that was high up there for best singles Haku match. Not sure if it is this one but I mean, the British Bulldogs and Islanders had really good matches so it makes sense that half of those teams going against each other would be solid.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Revisiting 2000 WXO Wrestling Episode #1 Ted DiBiase’s Family Friendly Wrestling Promotion - DEADLOCK: A Pro Wrestling Podcast

The DEADLOCK Podcast is an off-the-rails retrospective look at pro wrestling's highest & lowest points hosted by James Darnell, Anthony Douglas, & John Blud. Formerly the present, currently the past, sometimes the future - this podcast has seemed to do it all when it comes to the landscape of...

pca.st

What was WXO supposed to stand for? Wrestling Hugs & Kisses?

WXO The Worst of Misc

WXO - Wasn't X-actly Outstanding

www.wrestlecrap.com

Apparently nothing.

 

[BruiserBrody]

There was a great DBS-Haku match on a Coliseum Video that was high up there for best singles Haku match. Not sure if it is this one but I mean, the British Bulldogs and Islanders had really good matches so it makes sense that half of those teams going against each other would be solid.

I'm telling Haku you think he sucked.

 

[Valeyard]

I've always thought Bulldog was hugely overrated but he was always, at his best, extremely solid. You don't have the volume of good singles matches he did with the variety of opponents he had without him being able to carry his own weight. For a while he definitely seemed to get a pass because of association, though.

Bulldog/Owen in Germany > Bulldog/Bret at Summerslam.

 

[Hawk 34]

I've always thought Bulldog was hugely overrated but he was always, at his best, extremely solid. You don't have the volume of good singles matches he did with the variety of opponents he had without him being able to carry his own weight. For a while he definitely seemed to get a pass because of association, though.

Bulldog/Owen in Germany > Bulldog/Bret at Summerslam.

Bulldog/Bret in Hershey > Bulldog/Owen in Germany

 

[Fall of Epic]

Bulldog/Bret in Wembley > Bulldog/Bret in Hershey

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

That Bulldog/Haku Coliseum Video match > @BruiserBrody horsing around with his cousins in the lake

 

[snuffbox]

All 3 ppv matches with HBK were great, too. And before an argument that anyone could have great matches with Bret, Owen, and HBK, I'd say that, along with the Haku matches, those Warlord matches got repatitive by the end of 1991 but none of them were bad.

Bulldog was a great wrestler. But he was shopworn by 1998.

 

[Valeyard]

Bulldog/Bret in Hershey > Bulldog/Owen in Germany

Yes.

 

[alkeiper]

I need to look into this more but I was compiling a list of Von Erich NWA championship title shots and came across this card.

Show @ St. Louis (1963-11-22) - Results @ Wrestlingdata.com

Show @ St. Louis (1963-11-22) - Results

www.wrestlingdata.com

If that's accurate Thesz fought Fritz in St. Louis on the date of the Kennedy assassination.