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Random EC F'N W Bullshit
- Thread starter Big Papa Paegan
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Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
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Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
I'm re-watching Heatwave '98 again (because it's a great show all around), and I'll reiterate something I've had to have said a hundred times already: Shane Douglas is a great color guy.
He puts everybody over, doesn't step on Joey's lines, adds credibility to each talent (outright saying that he sees RVD as a threat to his title), and commands attention without being overbearing. He even covers for the miscommunication that almost ruins the Tag title match (RVD/Sabu vs. Hayabusa/Shinzaki) early on by playing up the jetlag of Hayabusa/Shinzaki and the egos of RVD/Sabu.
If he'd kept his ego and pride in check? No way he doesn't get a color gig in the 00s for WWE, TNA, or ROH. Which is what probably would have happened if he wasn't such a loudmouth prick half the time.
He puts everybody over, doesn't step on Joey's lines, adds credibility to each talent (outright saying that he sees RVD as a threat to his title), and commands attention without being overbearing. He even covers for the miscommunication that almost ruins the Tag title match (RVD/Sabu vs. Hayabusa/Shinzaki) early on by playing up the jetlag of Hayabusa/Shinzaki and the egos of RVD/Sabu.
If he'd kept his ego and pride in check? No way he doesn't get a color gig in the 00s for WWE, TNA, or ROH. Which is what probably would have happened if he wasn't such a loudmouth prick half the time.
I'll also add that he was a pretty underrated promo guy... when reigned in. When he was doing a backstage interview to put over an angle or match (such as when he was mocking Pitbull 1 from a wheelchair), he was great. When allowed to ramble on, many of his promos verged into THIS IS A SHOOT
Valeyard
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He's great. Heatwave '98 isn't the best show ECW put on without him, just for putting over guys by "taking notes" because you never know when the champ might have to face someone. He and Don West would've been magic.
Also HHH stole that look and I can't get past it.
Also HHH stole that look and I can't get past it.
Super Leather
Integral Poster
I've always felt that Shane Douglas was a much better promo when the profanity and SHOOT~! comments were kept in check. He's fantastic on color at Heat Wave. I'd be willing to say that he elevates the show with his commentary; he's literally the injured champion sizing up his competition.
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
Plus, we get a pair of awesome meltdowns over Taz, hyping their long-term program that had been building over the last few months and wouldn't blowoff until January the next year. The first when he keeps smashing his fist (and a pen) into the title for emphasis about how Bigelow beat Taz fairly, and then when he goes full douchebag tantrum and chucks the monitor after Taz beats Bigelow.
It's such a damn shame that Douglas was just above average in the ring, because he was so great at everything else surrounding the matches themselves. Even his old school heel schtick worked perfectly because it was juxtaposed with the "extreme" stuff around it.
Really makes me wish HHH hadn't ever decided he needed to be an ace, because Hunter did that stuff even better during the epic 2000 run.
Further Heatwave '98 awesomeness: the pre-tape parking lot beatdown of New Jack by the Dudleys. Buh Buh just storms in and drills him and then D-Von throws some awesome punches. I really don't think D-Von gets enough credit as a great heel brawler type, because all of the Dudleys ECW stuff hinges on him keeping it going between Buh Buh's bigger spots and riot-starting promos.
It's such a damn shame that Douglas was just above average in the ring, because he was so great at everything else surrounding the matches themselves. Even his old school heel schtick worked perfectly because it was juxtaposed with the "extreme" stuff around it.
Really makes me wish HHH hadn't ever decided he needed to be an ace, because Hunter did that stuff even better during the epic 2000 run.
Further Heatwave '98 awesomeness: the pre-tape parking lot beatdown of New Jack by the Dudleys. Buh Buh just storms in and drills him and then D-Von throws some awesome punches. I really don't think D-Von gets enough credit as a great heel brawler type, because all of the Dudleys ECW stuff hinges on him keeping it going between Buh Buh's bigger spots and riot-starting promos.
Super Leather
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Valeyard
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I blind bought it after loving the Awesome/Credible vs Tanaka/Lynn match. Assumed the singles matches would be great and they more than delivered. Second half of the tag title match was great too. And peak Gertner.
geniusMoment
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Heat Wave 98 and Anarchy Rulz 99 are probably my two favorite ECW PPVs.
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
Both great shows. I have a personal love for Massacre on 34th Street and Hardcore Heaven 2000, also.
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
So finally listening to the Brian Myers ECW podcast and it sounds like they’re doing seasons like a Netflix series and just dumping a bunch of episodes at once.
listened to the Balls Mahoney episode and it was pretty good. I liked learning that Balls was obsessed with the Harry Potter book series. I wonder which Hogwarts house is the most hardcore.
listened to the Balls Mahoney episode and it was pretty good. I liked learning that Balls was obsessed with the Harry Potter book series. I wonder which Hogwarts house is the most hardcore.
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
I also gave it a listen (after you mentioned the show a week or two ago). It ain't half bad. Douglas explaining just how really hurt he was for 1998 makes it all the more infuriating that he was still working in 1999, even if some of his best stuff was in the first quarter of the year (ring-wise).
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
It's very scattershot for the most part but so is most of the remaining ECW roster's brain space in 2021.
I hope they do an episode on Little Guido: Shooter for Season 2.
I hope they do an episode on Little Guido: Shooter for Season 2.
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
The M&M story is hilarious
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
Was going to bump this because I finished up a rewatch of Guilty As Charged '99 this morning (waiting for my boss to call).
-RVD vs. Lance Storm is half a legitimately great match, but it falters a little after the Van Daminator spots and never really recovers. Still, if this match happened today, in an AEW or NJPW ring? It would get insane praise and hype. It really is nuts how influential these two, among so many others of this era, were to modern talents.
-Man, Dawn Marie was so damn good. Cute, sure, but she also played the airhead valet schtick perfectly. I loved whenever Lance and Don Callis would put her over on their podcast because it made me re-think what she did, and she really did aid in Storm developing something of a personality (that helped him much better in WCW).
-Shane Douglas vs. Taz gets done better on a Hardcore TV rematch just a little while later, but the rematch has the benefits of a) being in the ECW Arena, b) having much less of the crowd brawling, and c) doesn't need to pay off the Triple Threat evaporation while also serving as Sabu's return. It's a bit deflating, in hindsight, that Taz's official coronation came after both Sabu and Chris Candido attacked Douglas, but at least Sabu went after both of them. I'd forgot how killer the build was between N2R '98 and this, and how outright cool Taz intentionally dropping the FTW belt to Sabu worked out: Taz "breaking" Sabu's neck and then pulling him on top for the pin, all because Sabu was the #1 contender after the N2R six-man, and Douglas wouldn't defend the belt against another champion anyway, so Taz puts himself into the position as the only viable contender. Still a good match.
-Spike Dudley decked out in "gangsta" gear ruled. The impromptu brawl with the other Dudleys (which New Jack and Spike answered) was...eh. It is legitimately crazy how interesting a good Dudleys brawl can be, though, when the other team(s) aren't one-note brawlers. Good pacing, never much downtime, and there's always something going on while the main focus stays in/near the ring. They were definitely the glue of the TLC matches the next few years in the WWF.
-SID. SID. SID. SID.
-Justin Credible vs. Tommy Dreamer existed for one good spot, the Cutter off the ladders, but that's about it.
-THE FIRST TAJIRI AND SUPER CRAZY ENCOUNTER. SO DAMN GOOD.
-Rest of the show is easily forgettable, but there's some really killer stuff on the horizon once Taz as champ is in full swing and Tajiri/Crazy become better utilized. And Jerry Lynn coming back from injury. And Steve Corino getting over almost instantly.
-RVD vs. Lance Storm is half a legitimately great match, but it falters a little after the Van Daminator spots and never really recovers. Still, if this match happened today, in an AEW or NJPW ring? It would get insane praise and hype. It really is nuts how influential these two, among so many others of this era, were to modern talents.
-Man, Dawn Marie was so damn good. Cute, sure, but she also played the airhead valet schtick perfectly. I loved whenever Lance and Don Callis would put her over on their podcast because it made me re-think what she did, and she really did aid in Storm developing something of a personality (that helped him much better in WCW).
-Shane Douglas vs. Taz gets done better on a Hardcore TV rematch just a little while later, but the rematch has the benefits of a) being in the ECW Arena, b) having much less of the crowd brawling, and c) doesn't need to pay off the Triple Threat evaporation while also serving as Sabu's return. It's a bit deflating, in hindsight, that Taz's official coronation came after both Sabu and Chris Candido attacked Douglas, but at least Sabu went after both of them. I'd forgot how killer the build was between N2R '98 and this, and how outright cool Taz intentionally dropping the FTW belt to Sabu worked out: Taz "breaking" Sabu's neck and then pulling him on top for the pin, all because Sabu was the #1 contender after the N2R six-man, and Douglas wouldn't defend the belt against another champion anyway, so Taz puts himself into the position as the only viable contender. Still a good match.
-Spike Dudley decked out in "gangsta" gear ruled. The impromptu brawl with the other Dudleys (which New Jack and Spike answered) was...eh. It is legitimately crazy how interesting a good Dudleys brawl can be, though, when the other team(s) aren't one-note brawlers. Good pacing, never much downtime, and there's always something going on while the main focus stays in/near the ring. They were definitely the glue of the TLC matches the next few years in the WWF.
-SID. SID. SID. SID.
-Justin Credible vs. Tommy Dreamer existed for one good spot, the Cutter off the ladders, but that's about it.
-THE FIRST TAJIRI AND SUPER CRAZY ENCOUNTER. SO DAMN GOOD.
-Rest of the show is easily forgettable, but there's some really killer stuff on the horizon once Taz as champ is in full swing and Tajiri/Crazy become better utilized. And Jerry Lynn coming back from injury. And Steve Corino getting over almost instantly.
Valeyard
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It's surprising Dawn Marie wasn't in WCW or WWF sooner. Canadian ditz Dawn writes itself.
This might be my favorite era of Douglas, upon reflection. Like, he felt like a legit big time player in wrestling, not just ECW. Looked it, sounded it, worked it (1998-9 is when he fit the best). Also I've gotten to really appreciate Taz. Always liked Taz but I don't think I just appreciated him and what he brought. He needed a better slate of guys on top, though.
I've tried so hard to defend Justin Credible but it isn't worth it. Like I go into his stuff, hoping for the best because I always just hope to see whatever Heyman did or at least see someone who was underappreciated by the smart fans, but it always comes back to him just not being very good.
This might be my favorite era of Douglas, upon reflection. Like, he felt like a legit big time player in wrestling, not just ECW. Looked it, sounded it, worked it (1998-9 is when he fit the best). Also I've gotten to really appreciate Taz. Always liked Taz but I don't think I just appreciated him and what he brought. He needed a better slate of guys on top, though.
I've tried so hard to defend Justin Credible but it isn't worth it. Like I go into his stuff, hoping for the best because I always just hope to see whatever Heyman did or at least see someone who was underappreciated by the smart fans, but it always comes back to him just not being very good.
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
Looking back, Taz's World title run would have been so, so much better a year before or a year after. If he wins it in '98, then he can work with Snow, Candido, Bigelow, and probably a series with Tanaka. A year later and he gets Lynn (post-RVD feud), Storm, Awesome, the returned Raven, Corino (in full bloodletter mode), and RVD after the leg injury. This negates the perfect moment of him besting Douglas after over a year of threatening him for it, but results in better work.
As it is, he had that one match with Sabu to tie up their story, a bunch of whatever, a really fun defense with Tajiri that clearly pushed Tajiri into the "canon," and then dropping the belt after news broke that he signed with the WWF.
Credible is fine when he's surrounded by bells and whistles (and obviously better workers), but he's a guy whose idea of leading the match amounts to "stuff you'd see on the C-show jobber matches...but with chairs." He has some bangers throughout '99 and a few in 2000, but he was never a guy worth his push, and pretty obviously got it because he was one of the few who'd never leave by choice.
As it is, he had that one match with Sabu to tie up their story, a bunch of whatever, a really fun defense with Tajiri that clearly pushed Tajiri into the "canon," and then dropping the belt after news broke that he signed with the WWF.
Credible is fine when he's surrounded by bells and whistles (and obviously better workers), but he's a guy whose idea of leading the match amounts to "stuff you'd see on the C-show jobber matches...but with chairs." He has some bangers throughout '99 and a few in 2000, but he was never a guy worth his push, and pretty obviously got it because he was one of the few who'd never leave by choice.
Valeyard
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Only person who got anything out of Credible was Lynn. I don't think the Impact Players hold up but they were fine, I guess. Credible just felt like he didn't belong. I get Heyman wanting to prove people wrong and make a new Douglas, basically, but Credible just wasn't it and didn't deserve his push.
Taz/Rhino would've been ideal. Taz beat him in his debut, so psycho Rhino gets revenge later. Pull the trigger earlier and at least feel like it was the plan all along.
Taz/Rhino would've been ideal. Taz beat him in his debut, so psycho Rhino gets revenge later. Pull the trigger earlier and at least feel like it was the plan all along.
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
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ECW NOSTALGIA WILL NEVER FN DIE!
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
Taz now owns the trademark to "Human Suplex Machine"
One Epic Winter (OEW)
Epic Reine
What about "Human Wrecking Machine"?
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
What a gentleman.
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
Dawn Marie is the rare valet talent that nobody has any bad words to say. There's plenty on Sunny, Sable, Missy, etc. but none on Dawn.
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
Torrie Wilson would probably have a cross word over Dawn sexing her father Al to death!
One Epic Winter (OEW)
Epic Reine
Has Bruce Prichard went over what the deal with Al Wilson was? Did they approached Torrie and be like "we want you and Dawn to feud and need to add some heat. Can we employ your father for a few months?"
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
Looked it up and STWW hasn't covered Royal Rumble '03 yet. Probably cause Conrad knows he'll have his first heart attack and/or stroke when Bruce sincerely tries to put over that angle as a good idea.
The WrestleMania XIX is legit most uncomfortable and unpleasant moment in all of the AdFreeShows can---and oh boy, @Laz is going to be ticked we're ruining his ECW thread with Ruthless Aggression and Conrad podcast talk.
The WrestleMania XIX is legit most uncomfortable and unpleasant moment in all of the AdFreeShows can---and oh boy, @Laz is going to be ticked we're ruining his ECW thread with Ruthless Aggression and Conrad podcast talk.
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
No. I'm used to you ruining things.