The Attitude Era Thread Vol 1

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1409846472217137158

 

[Mickey Massuco]

Everyone looks back on this era with disgust, would explain the lack of responses in this thread. Used to be overrated but now I’d say it’s underrated because there were a lot of good angles and matches but so much is cringeworthy.

this though


Two goats right here

 

[Valeyard]

It isn't disgust, at least from me. It's just no era has been discussed and analyzed and thought about as much and there's not a lot to say anymore.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yeah, anyone who says the Attitude Era isn't good is a fool and clown but the way the WWE (and large swaths of the IWC) have spoken of it reverentially as if it's the only era of WWE that's mattered in the past 30 years is very annoying. Especially as a New Generation and Ruthless Aggression era apologist.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

As far as this time goes, I'm more apt to join in talking about some of the most forgotten stuff. Like any period, this has loads and I guarantee if I watched a random Raw from, say, Fall '98 I'd spend half the time going "oh yeaaaaah... that!"

I embarked on a 1999 WWF run of shows a couple of years ago (I wanted to see peak Russo) and how much I'd forgotten was astounding. A lot of it might have been blocked out, but still. "What? There was a miscarriage angle?"

Hell, I think the China/Mark Henry/Summer (?) transgender angle ran the same night as Foley winning the WWF Championship but that sure as shit never comes up.

(please correct me if I'm wrong because I didn't want to look it up)

The point is that outside of the main event and a midcard feud here and there it's sort of a blur.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

'97-'98 and '00 mostly rule ass but '99, creatively, is IMO just as bad if not maybe worse in some aspects than 1995 WWF.

 

[Fall of Epic]

Yeah, I've said that parts of the Attitude Era don't hold up but that was mostly 1999 which, taken in a vacuum, was a big mess even though it's peak AE. It's been said on this board that Survivor Series '98 is the best thing Russo has ever done. Pretty hard to disagree with that.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Before that masochistic attempt at making sense out of chaos I also forgot that non-LOD Droz and Prince Albert would try and tattoo people they'd beaten.

I'm also glad I didn't know about cars when Austin filled "Vince's car" with cement. That Corvette even then was way too old to be something he still wanted to drive and apparently he digs driving fast and recklessly whenever he does it himself.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yeah, I've said that parts of the Attitude Era don't hold up but that was mostly 1999 which, taken in a vacuum, was a big mess even though it's peak AE. It's been said on this board that Survivor Series '98 is the best thing Russo has ever done. Pretty hard to disagree with that.

It's kind of all downhill after Halftime Heat until the McMahon-Helmsley era starts.

 

[Fall of Epic]

Royal Rumble '99 and WM15 are on the bottom tier of shows in their respective banners. Summerslam 1999 is mostly a bore as well outside the main event and the surprisingly good Shane/Test match.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

King of the Ring '99 is complete Mr. ass as well. Sorry @The Art of Postin' . Nothing stands out on the non major PPVs after St. Valentine's Day Massacre either outside of, for some reason, Ken Shamrock and Steve Blackman fighting in a parking lot and the Six Pack Challenge main event at Unforgiven '99.

Oh and Owen Hart dying but that's something I don't wax nostalgic about.

 

[Fall of Epic]

Jesse Ventura is a bright spot in 1999 that doesn't get brought up a lot. His participation in the product at the time was a big deal at the time and got them a lot of press (both good and bad). It wouldn't be a stretch to put him in a list of top guest refs ever.

 

[Valeyard]

Summerslam '99 is awesome. It's the only standalone show of the year that comes close to holding up. The triple threat is everything good about the main event scene at that point and the first time HHH seemed like he'd be a great worker, the tag titles is really fun, tag team turmoil is goofy but the E&C/Hardys is still fun, and I just mark for Jesse Ventura.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Jesse Ventura is a bright spot in 1999 that doesn't get brought up a lot. His participation in the product at the time was a big deal at the time and got them a lot of press (both good and bad). It wouldn't be a stretch to put him in a list of top guest refs ever.

Even though he was a longtime former employee, it's still mind blowing that WWF got a sitting Governor to participate in a storyline during their edgiest era.

It'd be overshadowed by WWE having a minor role in electing our dumbest President but like Over the Edge '99, that's something I don't like to think about.

 

[Fall of Epic]

Anyone remember Mills Lane showing up on the Raw after Survivor Series '98 to confirm (in a court of law) that Austin was entitled to a title match? I think Lane even showed up in WCW around this time as well. Talk about something that doesn't hold up.

 

[Valeyard]

I really liked Fully Loaded when I saw it a few years ago but I don't know if I would now. Probably the best Austin/Taker match.

Rock/HHH had to have had a match a month for two or so years and they all got better and better. I got sick of them but they always delivered.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Anyone remember Mills Lane showing up on the Raw after Survivor Series '98 to confirm (in a court of law) that Austin was entitled to a title match? I think Lane even showed up in WCW around this time as well. Talk about something that doesn't hold up.

It was to tell Vince how his firing of Austin was bullshit and invalid. This was the followup to the night-long angle where Austin was hunting Vince which climaxed in wet pants and "BANG 3:16." Austin stuffed some mystery documents into Vince's breast pocket, said it was important, and the show went off the air. Next week, Mills Lane (during his shot at the courtroom TV show days) said the documents saved Austin from being fired. Somehow.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Anyone remember Mills Lane showing up on the Raw after Survivor Series '98 to confirm (in a court of law) that Austin was entitled to a title match? I think Lane even showed up in WCW around this time as well. Talk about something that doesn't hold up.

He was involved in that hysterically awful Buff Bagwell Vs Roddy Piper boxing match at BATB '99. Who'd think to do an edgy '90s update on the WrestleMania 2 boxing match? And how in the hell was it possible that they somehow made it even worse!?

 

[Valeyard]

Wonder if Foley still has that stack of magic contracts Linda gave him.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Wonder if Foley still has that stack of magic contracts Linda gave him.

I was at the Raw where Foley got fired as commissioner. I only remember that and the only title change I've ever seen in person as the less-than-a-week team of Rock and Undertaker won the tag belts.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

This is at the end of what we're talking about but I also got to see the first match billed as "WWF v.s. WCW" with a house show tag team main event where Kane/Undertaker beat the crap out of the DDP/Mike Awesome team. The ECW invasion and Alliance forming happened two days later.

House shows during the Attitude Era were so fuckin' hype. In August 2000 The Rock stuck around after the main event to needle Tony Chimmel (he's from the area) and heckle random fans. The closest I've seen to that ever since was a time I went to Raw during the time of SHERIFF AUSTIN~ and he did the beer bath thing for what felt like waaaay too long.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I'm pissed there was some weird standoff between WWF and the Maine State Athletic commission in the late '90s. Portland only got the RAW after IYH: DeGeneration X (which I was too young to go to) and one house show (main evented by a Rock Vs Big Bossman NIGHTSTICK MATCH) and it was during a six month period when Mama Kamala told us we couldn't watch WWF anymore because she saw Vince McMahon freak out on Inside Edition or something.

WWF @ Portland, ME - Civic Center - June 9, 1999 (6,757; 5,647 paid)
Kurt Angle pinned Tiger Ali Singh with the Olympic Slam
Brian Christopher & Scott Taylor defeated D-Lo Brown & Mark Henry when Brian Christopher hit a missile dropkick after Henry caught Taylor coming off the top, with Taylor falling on top for the pin
Gangrel & Christian defeated Matt & Jeff Hardy when Gangrel pinned Jeff with the DDT after Edge countered the interference of Michael Hayes
WWF Hardcore Champion Al Snow defeated Hardcore Holly and Steve Blackman by hitting Holly with Head and scoring the pin after Blackman crashed through a table
Val Venis & Tori defeated Meat & Jackie when Jackie pinned Tori after Nicole Bass came to the ring and hit a chokeslam on Tori
WWF IC Champion Jeff Jarrett pinned the Godfather with a roll up after the challenger became distracted by the Blue Meanie talking to the hos at ringside
WWF Tag Team Champions the Acolytes defeated Ken Shamrock & Test when Farooq pinned Test with a spinebuster
Kane pinned Mideon with the chokeslam
The Big Show defeated Viscera in a slam match
The Rock pinned the Big Bossman in a nightstick on a pole match with the People's Elbow

This really seems like an @The Art of Postin' dream lineup. Bummed I missed it. Genuinely curious how pre TV debut Angle playing babyface was received.

 

[Valeyard]

No Mercy '99 to Wrestlemania 17 is peak, just because a really great ladder match turned into a fucking awesome TLC match.

Also wanna take this chance to say Bossman might have been deteriorating rapidly but it was so fucking cool having him back, busting his ass, and going to Big Show's Dad's funeral.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

The Big Bossman compensated for his lack of mobility with a ton of sleazy, over the top charisma. You didn't really notice how washed he was until he came back as Booker T's sidekick at the end of 2001 and by then, he was only around for another 3 or 4 months anyway.

 

[Valeyard]

Bossman was revitalized but knew his limitations. I loved the idea of him and Shamrock teaming up. Really between Shamrock, Albert, and Buchanan I would've loved him to just hang around the tag division somewhere.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Dredging up something else I don't want to think about but it's beyond odd that the three voices of reason who probably could've talked Benoit off the ledge were Big Bossman, Johnny Grunge, and Eddie Guerrero.

Name a more iconic trio...

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Dredging up something else I don't want to think about but it's beyond odd that the three voices of reason who probably could've talked Benoit off the ledge were Big Bossman, Johnny Grunge, and Eddie Guerrero.

Name a more iconic trio...

Easy, the Mean Street Posse. Come on, give us a hard one.

Also, Bossman was Booker T's sidekick once???

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yeah, during Booker's feud with Steve Austin and they were even briefly a tag team and got a titles shot against similarly iconic team of Spike Dudley & Tazz at No Way Out '02.

Edit- It was Booker T and TEST who unsuccessfully challenged Spike Dudley & Tazz. So much for my Ruthless Aggression era superfan cred.

 

[Brocklock]

Bossman had a short lived vets team with Mr. Perfect around that time in early 02. He was mostly on Heat and Jakked after his first few weeks back.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

They teamed up with Test against Rikishi and The Zoo Crew in the Sunday Night Heat match before WrestleMania X-8. I vaguely remember the match cause the SkyDome crowd treated them like babyfaces cause they were old WWF guys (plus it didn't hurt they were teaming with a Canadian).

That also might be where I conflate Bossman into the NWO '02 Tag Titles match!