The Meltzer Thread

[strummer]

Rollins is eligible next year. He will likely get less votes than .Roman.

Nikki Bella will be eligible as well!

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

One of the weirdly endearing qualities of Meltzer is how much he lovingly admires the first group of wrestlers that grew up admiring him.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

I don't think Seth should go in either but I would argue for Nikki at least somewhat. Nikki Bella has more mainstream recognition than Kenny Omega and probably Roman (unless he gets some more FF casting) will ever have. She also improved significantly as a worker and was super over (check out the pops for her especially at Evolution. No one else was more over). The Total Divas/Bellas trash can also be argued as important. I know a number of women who really loved the Bellas. They were a gateway to the modern era of WWE women's stuff.

Also she had a fucking awesome forearm.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I don't doubt that Seth Rollins will be HOF worthy by the end of his career but Idk if Becky Lynch would vote to induct him next year.

Looked it up and criteria is 10 years of experience or 35 years old. Ridiculous. Who made that? Prime Guy (do you accept)? I thought general consensus was that a lot of wrestlers don't reach their greatness until 10 years in.

 

[strummer]

As for the age issue. When Dave started the hof very few mainstream wrestlers lasted in the big time till their late 30s/early 40s so it wasn't really a problem. That's obviously changed now that Vince will push older wrestlers stronger than ever. Cena in his 40s would still be the top guy now if he wanted to be there.

So yeah he really needs to amend the qualifications

 

[alkeiper]

I think a lot of that is to do with the Joshi women, who for a while had a mandatory retirement age of 26. More recently he notes wrestlers like Kiyoshi Tamura who people would forget five years down the line. To me that's ridiculous. If your impact goes unnoticed a decade later, that really seems like a strike against your case.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

As for the age issue. When Dave started the hof very few mainstream wrestlers lasted in the big time till their late 30s/early 40s

48 year old Nick Bockwinkel was a World Champion when The Wrestling Observer released its first issue.

 

[alkeiper]

Wrestlers have lasted forever since, well, forever. The golden era stars of wrestling (Gagne, Bruiser, Crusher, Carpentier, Sheik, Brazil), a lot of those guys had 30 year careers. And given the nature of wrestling I wouldn't expect to wait until wrestlers are retired. We know for example that Rey Mysterio is a Hall of Famer. But someone like Freddie Blassie won his FIRST championship when he was 35. He had his biggest career match in the states in his 50s.

I think the baseball hall of fame approach, that you drop guys under a certain percentage, simply does not work for professional wrestling. If I ran a HOF vote I would scrap it.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Alternately though, I think Baseball (and rest of the major sports) Hall of Fames qualification of having to be retired for at least five years is good.

I would say retired for five years or at least 50 years old.

 

[strummer]

I guess I was talking about .Vince mainly. Up until recently he tended not to push guys over a certain age. Hogan was 36/37 when he was supposed to be phased out for .Warrior. He wouldn't push Savage as a wrestler in the early 90s because he was in his 40s, etc

 

[alkeiper]

Alternately though, I think Baseball (and rest of the major sports) Hall of Fames qualification of having to be retired for at least five years is good.

I would say retired for five years or at least 50 years old.

Yeah, I'm referring specifically to a wrestling Hall of Fame.

 

[BUTT]

Junkyard Dog and Ron Simmons still aren't in cause Dave and his stans are racist pieces of garbage.

JYD should absolutely be in, but I'm gonna risk cancellation by saying I don't see a case for Simmons. Decent worker, decent promo, not a lot of great matches, didn't draw on top. His most famous run was as part of a midcard tag team (that was very over at one time but were never any higher than the fourth biggest match on a PPV). I see value in being the first black world champ in a major promotion (though WCW in '92 was really only "major" because it had strong TV) but that alone isn't enough to be a HOFer.

 

[Baby Shoes]

JYD should absolutely be in, but I'm gonna risk cancellation by saying I don't see a case for Simmons. Decent worker, decent promo, not a lot of great matches, didn't draw on top. His most famous run was as part of a midcard tag team (that was very over at one time but were never any higher than the fourth biggest match on a PPV). I see value in being the first black world champ in a major promotion (though WCW in '92 was really only "major" because it had strong TV) but that alone isn't enough to be a HOFer.

I don’t think that’s crazy. I like Simmons and his win over Vader is an all-time great, feel-good moment with a historic win but sadly WCW didn’t give him that great of a run. A big portion of his WCW run was Doom, then the bulk of importance in his WWF run, as you said an over tag team but even when they were champs they were like the 4th most popular team in the division.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

serious lack of respect for his run in MidSouth. Easily my favourite Rom Simmons stuff.

 

[Baby Shoes]

serious lack of respect for his run in MidSouth. Easily my favourite Rom Simmons stuff.

Bro, we talking about Ron Simmons, not Rom this time.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Bro, we talking about Ron Simmons, not Rom this time.

Don’t stoop to Rom.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1330085435645845505

 

[Hawk 34]

If only Rick and Scott made it a part of their gimmick and business plan to be Meltzer’s friends then they would have been remembered.

 

[Brocklock]

Meltzer's HOF has never been a real HOF to me. One of the biggest draws ever not being in because of Dave's biases and bigotry is a reason for that. The only use it brings is reading various discussions and debates around certain wrestlers, but I can't take it seriously since its clearly biased towards an elderly racist's opinions. Hmm that might disqualify most Hall of Fames from mattering.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

HOF’s in wrestling and mma are a joke but that Steiner clip man. I’m not even gonna argue because I’m sure there are people here that agree.

but how can the young bucks have the longevity factor when the Steiners have been together longer /wacko

 

[BUTT]

Steiners only had 9ish years as a full-time team, while idk when the Bucks started exactly but it's been about 11 years since they joined TNA. I know Rick and Scott had their sporadic reunions but nothing after Superbrawl VIII really counts except that one promo on Impact where they sonned the Dudleys.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I just don’t like how Meltzer talks about Young Bucks career in totality when they are basically right around the halfway point of their careers.

You can argue whether or not Young Bucks are a better team than the Steiners. That is fine RE: but to say they have a greater impact and more longevity is an absolute joke and honestly hurts the Bucks with its absurdity more than anything. Plus it alienates whoever still respects Meltzer with its wrongness except for his base of AEW stans.

Edit and I knew someone would bring up their TNA and early indies stuff but I thought it would be a TNA Stan and not BUTT. I know technically they have been around longer than the Steiners but they really have only mattered for the last 5 or 6 years.

at risk of getting flamed off TRTSM, I actually don’t doubt that ONE DAY The Young Bucks might outrank The Steiners on GOAT tag team lists but to do so preemptively is just foolish.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

They were together longer but don't have the longevity.

...wut...

Also, for the sake of argument, the Bucks are a shell of who they were 7-8 years ago, and have been surpassed in overall quality by other teams in their own company's locker room (Lucha Bros in particular).

 

[Valeyard]

I remember more of Generation Me than the Young Bucks.

 

[Brocklock]

I remember more of Generation Me than the Young Bucks.

Max and Jeremy were better than Matt and Nick.

 

[Valeyard]

They were. Matt and Nick couldn't have brought it in that empty arena match.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Young Bucks in PWG from 2011-2013 is a strong case for GOAT team. Their spot-spot-spot stuff works best as annoying meta heels.

 

[BruiserBrody]

My former co-worker's argument was that the Bucks turned a Japan Vlog into a Youtube Channel that spawned the number 2 North American Wrestling show, so they are influential compared to the Steiners.

Meanwhile Brody says the Steiners would've turned the Bucks into oil stains on the mat if such a match had occurred. I still see them in the same light as PG 13 (circa late 90s) in WCW/WWF, just little geeks.

 

[tekcop]

PG-13 were better than the Bucks, tbh.