Chat! culturecrossfire.slack.com

Wrestling Games

Status
Not open for further replies.

vivisectvi

Integral Poster
Messages
22,198
Reaction score
1
Points
178
Zombie Matt Young said:
AndrewTS said:
Present gen wrestling games suck. All of them.

That's simply not true. Smackdown has been really good the last couple years, especially 2010. Most people agree that SvR2010 is the best, most complete package offered yet. I would bring up Fire Pro, but that was PS3. Legends of WrestleMania was really good for what it was.

2010 was really great, actually. It's the closest they've come to HCTP, IMO.. it even edges it out in a few areas, too. Wrestle Kingdom 2 was pretty great too.. and it even has the fabled No Mercy (or DOR) control scheme attached to it.
 

DrVenkman PhD

You don't know me and you don't have to know me
Messages
29,096
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Location
Windsor, Ontario
I could see if you dislike present gen wrestling the games wouldn't be of any interest. I can see Drew's point on that one.

It also seems that 10 years later we've decided to just accept these are good games when, from a gameplay aspect, they are inferior to the games on the N64. And I say this as a fan of the SVR series.
 

AndrewTS

Integral Poster
Messages
700
Reaction score
0
Points
0
dubq said:
Is there anything that you DON'T fucking hate?

Yes, lots.

I don't think the SVR games have ever really rose above mediocre, and as much praise as HCTP gets, the stat system is broken and unbalanced. It seems like the collision detection has always been sloppy (while it, strangely enough, much more tight in Rumble Roses XX--too bad that game's career modes were boned up so badly, making it not very fun to play 1P). The series has been more about presentation than anything else from day one.

I wouldn't go as far as saying that there have been no good games since the N64. As mentioned, last generation we had Fire Pro and the two good Def Jam games. FFNY is especially excellent. Although, given the choice, I'd rather play No Mercy for familiarity's sake.

I'll plead ignorance on Wrestle Kingdom II, though. Although I thought Day of Reckoning 1 and 2 was garbage, too, regardless of the control scheme.

Matt Young mentioned a Fire Pro for PS3...which is weird, since I can't find any mention of that anywhere.
 

vivisectvi

Integral Poster
Messages
22,198
Reaction score
1
Points
178
DrVenkman PhD said:
I could see if you dislike present gen wrestling the games wouldn't be of any interest. I can see Drew's point on that one.

It also seems that 10 years later we've decided to just accept these are good games when, from a gameplay aspect, they are inferior to the games on the N64. And I say this as a fan of the SVR series.

See, IMO, the only thing that the N64 AKI games had going for them was the control scheme. The AI was pure garbage and all of those games were plagued with terrible slowdown when there were more than 2 wrestlers in the ring. If I had to choose, I'd rather the gameplay in HCTP or 2010 over No Mercy or WM2000, and I say that as a fan of the latter two games.
 

oldskool

oldskool
Messages
3,939
Reaction score
20
Points
123
Location
Rochester, NY
I'd kill for a true career mode. I've yet to see a truly good one. The Roads to Wrestlemania are interesting but making me play through them 2-3 times to unlock everything is annoying, and the WM2000/NM modes were too centered around winning matches at the right time (IIRC the only way to win was to win the Rumble & then win the title at Wrestlemania; winning the KotR in June, winning the title in August & defending all the way through WM was a failure) & the rest of it was just random matches.
 

vivisectvi

Integral Poster
Messages
22,198
Reaction score
1
Points
178
I always felt that the season mode in HCTP (and SYM to a lesser extent) was the height of this game mode. It was essentially never ending (though you'd get repeats of stories after 2 years) but it was the right direction, IMO. I wish they'd bring something like that back in.
 

oldskool

oldskool
Messages
3,939
Reaction score
20
Points
123
Location
Rochester, NY
It would be really easy now that all the PPVs have specific goals (i.e. Raw/SD from the Rumble to Elimination Chamber is 5 qualifying matches per show, winners go in vs champion in EC) as opposed to the olden days when you had PPV after PPV with storyline-specific matches that'd be really hard to simulate.
 

vivisectvi

Integral Poster
Messages
22,198
Reaction score
1
Points
178
Remember the little "video packages" that HCTP would show of your feud right before a PPV? I always loved those little touches.
 

Haws Bah Gawd

TRTSM's Color Commentator
Messages
8,244
Reaction score
3
Points
143
Was it HCTP that had the thing where when you started your career, your wrestler would stand on the stage and talk about how breathtaking the view was? IIRC, after you won at Wrestlemania, you would walk up to Vince backstage who was recovering from a match, and he would tell you how talented you are, and how bright your future is, followed by your guy thinking to himself how happy he was to be there, and how all the other wrestlers were his family. Yea, that was a neat touch.

I REALLY liked the Shawn Michaels story from 2010, with him going after the World title because he had to know what it felt like to hold it, just one more time. I thought that would have worked well on TV.
 

vivisectvi

Integral Poster
Messages
22,198
Reaction score
1
Points
178
Yeah, it was similar to that. I think there was a black and white thing of your wrestler warming up in an empty arena before heading backstage. Then they cut to the first TV show post-WM.

I think the one with Vince talking to you backstage was from the following years game - the first Smackdown vs Raw (2005).
 

Mattdotcom

Integral Poster
Messages
25,121
Reaction score
7
Points
0
The best parts of WM2000 Career Mode were matches like VISCERA & MIDEON Def. GANGREL & SHANE MCMAHON via SUBMISSION in 45:08.
 

Haws Bah Gawd

TRTSM's Color Commentator
Messages
8,244
Reaction score
3
Points
143
45 minutes? I would expect someone to have to cart out Vis after 10, much less 45.
 

AndrewTS

Integral Poster
Messages
700
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Zombie Matt Young said:
dubq said:
He meant PS2..

Yes. I made a typo.

Then it isn't present-generation. Re-reading the post it makes sense in context, though.

See, IMO, the only thing that the N64 AKI games had going for them was the control scheme. The AI was pure garbage and all of those games were plagued with terrible slowdown when there were more than 2 wrestlers in the ring. If I had to choose, I'd rather the gameplay in HCTP or 2010 over No Mercy or WM2000, and I say that as a fan of the latter two games.

The AI wasn't ideal--on the harder difficulties the computer would just reverse everything--but I got good enough that I could handle the harder difficulties regardless--plus the bulk of my matches were against friends anyway.

Although I fail to see why you'd bash the AKI games' AI and hype HCTP, where in career mode you could beat up an opponent for 10 minutes straight, but because it was a higher stat wrestler (and you were still building up your stats), your opponent could counter a grapple with a back elbow, hit you with his special move, and win the match anyway--even after getting almost no prior offense in! Plus, HCTP always gave a massive, massive stat edge to the top-ranked guys in the game, giving them stats that were waaay out of proportion with their abilities. Playing a midcarder or a cruiser is an automatic handicap. FFS when freaking Playstation 1 games have better character balance than your game you have problems.
 

Kahran Ramsus

Integral Poster
Messages
10,817
Reaction score
54
Points
188
Plus, HCTP always gave a massive, massive stat edge to the top-ranked guys in the game, giving them stats that were waaay out of proportion with their abilities. Playing a midcarder or a cruiser is an automatic handicap.

I actually liked that. Undertaker should be harder to beat than Charlie Haas. Far more realistic that way and it gives a bigger sense of accomplishment when you actually do beat him.
 

oldskool

oldskool
Messages
3,939
Reaction score
20
Points
123
Location
Rochester, NY
Sounds accurate, really, to have a midcarder beat down a main eventer only to make "one mistake", get caught with the big move & defeated.
 

vivisectvi

Integral Poster
Messages
22,198
Reaction score
1
Points
178
AndrewTS said:
Although I fail to see why you'd bash the AKI games' AI and hype HCTP, where in career mode you could beat up an opponent for 10 minutes straight, but because it was a higher stat wrestler (and you were still building up your stats), your opponent could counter a grapple with a back elbow, hit you with his special move, and win the match anyway--even after getting almost no prior offense in! Plus, HCTP always gave a massive, massive stat edge to the top-ranked guys in the game, giving them stats that were waaay out of proportion with their abilities. Playing a midcarder or a cruiser is an automatic handicap.

I've honestly never experienced the former. The latter is kind of "real world" accurate given the way WWE was booked at the time and goes with the fact that obviously the main eventers are going to be overpowered over the lower carders.
 

AndrewTS

Integral Poster
Messages
700
Reaction score
0
Points
0
"Awesome!! I LOVE 3/4+ of the Roster in a game being shit!!!"

Fuck that.
 

DrVenkman PhD

You don't know me and you don't have to know me
Messages
29,096
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Location
Windsor, Ontario
I liked how in the sequels they did that weight / hit detection thing where Rey Mysterio would have to stop and sell his foot if you kicked Great Khali. I'm being a bit facetious but it was kind of fun to work over the big guys until you could do more moves on them.
 

Sabre

Integral Poster
Messages
5,307
Reaction score
4
Points
143
Location
Cloughmills - Northern Ireland
DrVenkman PhD said:
I liked how in the sequels they did that weight / hit detection thing where Rey Mysterio would have to stop and sell his foot if you kicked Great Khali. I'm being a bit facetious but it was kind of fun to work over the big guys until you could do more moves on them.

All taken from the Aki games.
 

DrVenkman PhD

You don't know me and you don't have to know me
Messages
29,096
Reaction score
5
Points
0
Location
Windsor, Ontario
Weight detection (as in no bodyslams or suplexes) yes. PUNCHING A GUY and having him no sell while your character jumps around selling the pain of the action because you're two weight divisions under him? No.
 

Haws Bah Gawd

TRTSM's Color Commentator
Messages
8,244
Reaction score
3
Points
143
Yea, someone also decided Trevor Murdoch should pull back in agony after punching Undertaker.
 

AndrewTS

Integral Poster
Messages
700
Reaction score
0
Points
0
dubq said:
AndrewTS said:
"Awesome!! I LOVE 3/4+ of the Roster in a game being shit!!!"

Fuck that.

Hyperbole, much?

Not at all, just a strawman summary of the apologism on display here.

I'm just saying...let's compare a couple wrestlers' stats from that game...

Triple H
OVERALL 90
STRENGTH 9.5
SUBMISSION 8.5
ENDURANCE 10
TECHNIQUE 9
SPEED 8

Shelton Benjamin
OVERALL 73
STRENGTH 6
SUBMISSION 7.5
ENDURANCE 7.5
TECHNIQUE 8
SPEED 7.5

Hell, who needs analysis? All I have to say is "LOL" to that.

I'll play a better wrestling game instead.
 

bps21

Integral Poster
Messages
26,972
Reaction score
0
Points
216
I wouldn't have thought that HHH was faster than Shelton Benjamin...but numbers don't lie. Especially on the internet.
 

vivisectvi

Integral Poster
Messages
22,198
Reaction score
1
Points
178
AndrewTS said:
dubq said:
AndrewTS said:
"Awesome!! I LOVE 3/4+ of the Roster in a game being shit!!!"

Fuck that.

Hyperbole, much?

Not at all, just a strawman summary of the apologism on display here.

I'm just saying...let's compare a couple wrestlers' stats from that game...

Triple H
OVERALL 90
STRENGTH 9.5
SUBMISSION 8.5
ENDURANCE 10
TECHNIQUE 9
SPEED 8

Shelton Benjamin
OVERALL 73
STRENGTH 6
SUBMISSION 7.5
ENDURANCE 7.5
TECHNIQUE 8
SPEED 7.5

Hell, who needs analysis? All I have to say is "LOL" to that.

I'll play a better wrestling game instead.
This isn't apologism. I am saying that I thoroughly enjoyed the game more than the AKI games.. it was an overall better experience both from a gameplay and presentation standpoint. The stats thing didn't or doesn't bother me. They're pretty much kayfabe. Besides, you could also amp up those stats (even for the default roster) as you went through the season mode. Anyway, I'm not going to get into a stupid back and forth with you over this. It's pointless.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top