Wrestling Games

[Danville_Wrestling]

I won't buy WWE '12, but I'd buy Monsoon '12.

 

[2GOLD]

Vince should announce the games. Then the delays in calls will seem real to life.

12ohmygodhegothim...a kick out and two moves later....no, he didn't.

 

[Danville_Wrestling]

I wish they'd just take the commentary out and just give us some nice background music.

 

[bps21]

LIKE LIMP BIZKIT AND NICKELBACK. WWE 12.

 

[BorneAgain]

We need some old school AKI production back for wrestling games.

WCW/nWo: World Tour got it right:

[flash=200,200]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtMo0c15iRE&feature=related[/flash]

 

[Mattdotcom]

But you have to turn off the music so the game won't lag when you have a six man with weapons match.

Oh, man, Monsoon '12 would own if there was an ASK MONSOON option.

 

[KOAB]

ASK MONSOON

 

[Mattdotcom]

"Are you kidding me?! You've got him right where you want him! Attack the upper extraneous trapezius!"

 

[vivisectvi]

WWE 12 Cover Superstar: Reveal Trailer

 

[DrVenkman PhD]

Wow, the game looks amazing. Exactly like TV, very lifelike.

 

[bps21]

That gear that only Randy Orton has?

Is this a comedy game?

 

[vivisectvi]

Cover art:

Preview. It's written by that mouth-breather Greg Miller, so it's not a well-formed piece of writing.

For years WWE SmackDown vs. Raw has been the Sports Entertainment simulation series from THQ and Yuke's Yokohama. It's been a fun ride, but as with any franchise, fans have complained about annual aspects over and over again. Turns out the developers were listening, killed the series, and are planning on fixing things with WWE '12.

The stiff animations, the characters warping into place for certain moves, the confusing right analog stick controls for grapples -- WWE '12 is addressing all of that and feels good so far. That's pretty damn exciting.

THE NUTS AND BOLTS STUFF
Now, it would be easy to glance at screenshots and assume THQ and developer Yuke's Yokohama just dumped the WWE SmackDown vs. Raw name and called it a day. That's what I did. For a few days leading into my meeting, THQ had been telling me this game was going to be unlike any other WWE game I had seen, but when I finally laid eyes on it, WWE '12 sure did look similar to WWE SmackDown vs. Raw 2011.

Then, I started to play it. THQ and Yuke's didn't just change the name, they changed the game's DNA. There's a new animation system, new blending methods, something called "Predator Technology" -- basically, they went under the game's hood and ripped out all the old stuff that people hated and plugged in brand new parts to try and make the most fluid wrestling game around.

When John Cena's suplexing an opponent, a third Superstar can punch Cena and break up the move. You can do that for any move -- even Finishers and mini-games like the Royal Rumble eliminations. When you're slammed to the mat at the beginning of a bout, you're going to sell the move and get up at the same time so that the match keeps a fast-paced feel. When you're getting up from any move, you're going to have a window to strike before you're even to your feet. The goal is to have a game that feels like anything can happen from any position and eradicate that stiffness and clunkiness that has always been a calling card of WWE SmackDown vs. Raw.

For me, it all came together watching a three-man match. Orton laid out an opponent and went to the ring apron, Cena immediately started his 5-Knuckle Shuffle routine on the downed man, and as Cena was coming down, Randy Orton launched himself from the apron to land a splash. Orton hit, Cena hit, and Orton hit again. The sequence was polished and fast -- it looked like a spot from ECW of old. There was no blown animation as the character on the ground reacted to the first move and ignored the other.

People don't warp to the center of the ring for a 5-Knuckle Shuffle and similar moves anymore; the move happens where it happens. The ropes no longer stay awkwardly still during matches; you slam someone and the ring reacts. The tired fonts and menus of old have been ditched for a new setup. Visually, new shaders and tech have been introduced to make the game look better than ever. There's definition to the character's faces instead of the blur there was last year, and depth of field has been introduced to give the brand new arenas weight and realism.

The game, according to THQ, has been taken apart and put back together, and from the little I've seen, I believe them -- though the changes aren't monumental when you stare at a still image, they shine in motion.

GAMEPLAY
Seeing the game in motion is where the proof of all these Predators and shaders lives. I've already talked about how the moves flow together, but there's more to it than that. The days of analog stick grapples are over. Now, everything's going back to the face buttons of your favorite controller. Grapple, strike, pin and Finisher are all right there for the taking. There are no strong and weak grapples -- the moves you're pulling off are dependent on how worn down the opponent is.

That's all well and good, but there are specific things THQ has peppered in that affect the gameplay. First, there's limb targeting in WWE '12. You can attack the head, arms or legs, and while this obviously puts you in a good place for certain finishers, it also really twists the match in whatever direction you want it to go. If you're up against a lightning quick high flier, you can work the legs so the opponent can't get around as quickly and can't zip up the turnbuckles. Work the head, and the opponent is going to be a groggy mess. All this plays into how easy it'll be to get an opponent to tap in the new "Breaking Point" submission system where players tap buttons in a tug of war mini-game.

Epic brawls are going to look like the epic brawls you see on TV -- both in terms of the new camera angle that's more pulled back and the gameplay speed I talked about earlier -- but they get even more like Monday Night Raw when you add in the new Wake Up Taunts in WWE '12. Basically, you know how Randy Orton pounds the ground before he goes to hit his Finisher on TV? That can happen in the game now. You knock your opponent down with your Finisher primed, hit the taunt button, and you'll get a celebration that ends with the opponent getting to his feet in the perfect setup for your big move. The opponent gets a chance at reversing it, but it really brings together that TV style presentation THQ's been working on for the last few years.

That said, I thought the stamina bar was a bit of a step backwards in WWE '12. The last few WWE SmackDown vs. Raw games incorporated a barely visible halo around the Superstars feet to keep players in-tune with how they're doing in a match and not distract from the presentation. As of now, WWE '12 features a big meter with a name on it at the bottom of the screen showing how close you are to building a Signature or Finisher (you can store two Finishers). I found it jarring as the game looks better than ever and is trying so hard to mimic broadcasts.

Still, that's the only gripe I have with the new direction. WWE '12 also adds Dynamic Comebacks, which are those tried and true combos you see folks like Cena throw out that take them from the edge of defeat to clearing the ring. If you reach a certain amount of damage, you'll be able to have a shot to use this one-time combo. Pull it off, and you get two Finishers.

These stored Finishers and Dynamic Comebacks make it seem like my friends and I are going to have some awesome matches, but THQ and Yuke's want you to have awesome matches with computer-controlled opponents, too. The AI learns this time around. If you spam run attacks like I do (I'm infamous on the Internet for my floatover DDT), the computer opponent is supposed to recognize that and be ready to counter it. For the first time, THQ says that the computer is going to remember what you've been doing and what it's been doing. (i.e. if it picks up a chair, it's not going to drop it -- it's going to hit you with it.)

Balancing the difficulty isn't just a focus when it comes to the man versus machine matches. THQ found that people figured out how to master the pinning system pretty quickly in SVR 11, so it's been redone in WWE '12. It's still a metered system (hold a button to fill a meter and release it when it gets to a window on the meter), but the window moves around this time at random -- it won't always be in the same spot. Similarly, the window size varies on how beat up you are, and if you're pinned after the opponent hits his Finisher, the meter might not pop up to the two-count so you'd only have one shot at it.

WHEW
All that, and there's still more to say. Unless your opponent is really hurting, expect to get just one ground grapple in. The right stick repositions opponents. Animations change based on weight classes. There are new "attach points" for moves so that hands and legs lock to certain points in certain moves and don't clip through bodies. Justin Roberts is here as the ring announcer, King and Cole are confirmed, and Alberto Del Rio's entrance comes complete with Ricardo Rodriguez.

There's a lot to WWE '12, and I won't pretend that I've seen it all. As it stands, this taste served its purpose -- I had fun playing and can't wait to see more. We'll all admit that WWE SmackDown vs. Raw was getting stale and doing the same thing year after year, so a relaunch that tackles a lot of fan complaints head on is very exciting. Let's just hope it doesn't suck.

 

[Dobbs3K]

Well, it all sounds good. Let's just hope it lives up to the hype.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

When John Cena's suplexing an opponent, a third Superstar can punch Cena and break up the move. You can do that for any move -- even Finishers and mini-games like the Royal Rumble eliminations.

Like Day of Reckoning.

When you're getting up from any move, you're going to have a window to strike before you're even to your feet. The goal is to have a game that feels like anything can happen from any position and eradicate that stiffness and clunkiness that has always been a calling card of WWE SmackDown vs. Raw.

...like Day of Reckoning...

For me, it all came together watching a three-man match. Orton laid out an opponent and went to the ring apron, Cena immediately started his 5-Knuckle Shuffle routine on the downed man, and as Cena was coming down, Randy Orton launched himself from the apron to land a splash. Orton hit, Cena hit, and Orton hit again. The sequence was polished and fast -- it looked like a spot from ECW of old. There was no blown animation as the character on the ground reacted to the first move and ignored the other.

Okay, this sounds pretty boss.

The tired fonts and menus of old have been ditched for a new setup.

Yes, because that was the biggest problem with the last 4 editions of SVR, the menus using fonts commonly found all over WWE programming.

The days of analog stick grapples are over. Now, everything's going back to the face buttons of your favorite controller. Grapple, strike, pin and Finisher are all right there for the taking.

I kinda dug the idea of using one of the sticks to grapple, but I'm not attached to it.

There are no strong and weak grapples

...

the moves you're pulling off are dependent on how worn down the opponent is.

...lame.

First, there's limb targeting in WWE '12. You can attack the head, arms or legs, and while this obviously puts you in a good place for certain finishers, it also really twists the match in whatever direction you want it to go. If you're up against a lightning quick high flier, you can work the legs so the opponent can't get around as quickly and can't zip up the turnbuckles. Work the head, and the opponent is going to be a groggy mess. All this plays into how easy it'll be to get an opponent to tap in the new "Breaking Point" submission system where players tap buttons in a tug of war mini-game.

So...they're advertising a feature that used to exist in virtually all major wrestling games until SVR '08 as if it's new. Awesome. I'm glad not much has changed.

Basically, you know how Randy Orton pounds the ground before he goes to hit his Finisher on TV? That can happen in the game now. You knock your opponent down with your Finisher primed, hit the taunt button, and you'll get a celebration that ends with the opponent getting to his feet in the perfect setup for your big move.

Minus the "instantly makes opponent rise" feature, this hasn't changed since THQ and Aki owned the market with WCW vs. nWo World Tour.

WWE '12 also adds Dynamic Comebacks, which are those tried and true combos you see folks like Cena throw out that take them from the edge of defeat to clearing the ring. If you reach a certain amount of damage, you'll be able to have a shot to use this one-time combo. Pull it off, and you get two Finishers.

This actually sounds pretty cool, but expect Cena to be able to pull them off 7 times a match, even if you've hit him with a semi.

For the first time, THQ says that the computer is going to remember what you've been doing and what it's been doing. (i.e. if it picks up a chair, it's not going to drop it -- it's going to hit you with it.)

Good. I hope your AI partner does the same.

Balancing the difficulty isn't just a focus when it comes to the man versus machine matches. THQ found that people figured out how to master the pinning system pretty quickly in SVR 11, so it's been redone in WWE '12. It's still a metered system (hold a button to fill a meter and release it when it gets to a window on the meter), but the window moves around this time at random -- it won't always be in the same spot. Similarly, the window size varies on how beat up you are, and if you're pinned after the opponent hits his Finisher, the meter might not pop up to the two-count so you'd only have one shot at it.

Meh. I changed it to the "tap a button" feature.

WHEW

Shut your fuckhole.

Let's just hope it doesn't suck.

Aye. Too bad it likely will.

 

[Dangerous Damon]

"Are you kidding me?! You've got him right where you want him! Attack the upper extraneous trapezius!"

Will he talk shit on you if you don't drive with your legs on the backslide?

 

[MillenniumMan831]

I'd rather create a Create-A-Ref and get advice from MONSOON.

 

[DrVenkman PhD]

I know people loved the DoR stuff, but damnit if I didn't hate triple threat matches against the computer because of it. I already had them under the current constrols because I find the AI generally goes straight for human players even though they should just watch me destroy one of their opponents - now they're going to outright stop me from hitting moves with a simple punch? In fact, as I recall from DoR, if the computer DID do moves to other computer opponents, I'd usually get knocked over by a suplex while trying to set up a table.

I sense frustration coming.

 

[vivisectvi]

WWE '12: First Footage

 

[Sabre]

Yeah those moves done look awkward at all. If there is a demo, ill try it, if not, ill pass.

 

[vivisectvi]

To be fair, it's pretty early.

 

[Mazto]

Yeah, I think I'll be passing this year since what they are adding doesn't seem to be all that great. I'll keep tinkering with my `11, and wait and see if something else comes along next year.

And the first thing I thought of with Dynamic Comebacks was "Great Cena will become the new Taker and be damn near impossible to beat ever."

 

[Exslade ZX]

The ropes continuously bouncing like that actually annoys me. And many of the moves look very stiff or clunky. But like you said hopefully that's just because it's early.

 

[A Happy Medium]

Yeah. I don't like Orton kicking with his left foot, or the ringing in the ears sound they give you.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

I actually liked how, since Cena was close to the ropes, the Punt ended with Orton's foot hitting the ropes and then bending it. That's not too bad.

However, if the controls are still as limited as they've been for the last 3 years and the game still as clunky and slow as they've been for the last 4? Pass.

 

[vivisectvi]

Both THQ and WWE made the call to drop the “Smackdown vs. Raw” name from the video game series going forward and starting fresh with the new “WWE 12″ (for 2012) branding starting this November. According to a report by The Wrestling Observer Newsletter, the decisionw was largely due in part to both brands not being separated enough and no real “brand rivalry.” This also explains the company dropping the Bragging Rights PPV concept since they would normally co-promote that PPV event with the release of a new WWE “Smackdown vs. Raw” video game. Footage of the game will be shown at E3 from June 7-9.

 

[KOAB]

I actually liked the DOR engine. It was fun with a friend for tag matches as you could create your own tag finishers. Having my brother big swing somebody and I'd hit a crossbody perfectly before they'd hit the mat... that's something I'd hope more wrestling game would try to implement.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

I remember playing WM2000/No Mercy with a friend, we'd be the Hardy Boyz, and we'd do as close to Event Omega as we could. One of us would end up missing and dying, but it was still a pretty cool visual.

 

[King Cucaracha]

Should be Monsoon '12.

Highly unlikely.

 

[Dangerous Damon]

I actually liked the DOR engine. It was fun with a friend for tag matches as you could create your own tag finishers. Having my brother big swing somebody and I'd hit a crossbody perfectly before they'd hit the mat... that's something I'd hope more wrestling game would try to implement.

One of my my favorite finishes I ever pulled off in that game was during a triple threat match with Paul London, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Benoit. Eddie hit the Three Amigos, and on the third suplex I hit him with the Shooting Star Press and won. It was perfect.

 

[ChrisMWaters]

Might as well ask here.

Natsume Pro-Wrestling is on Wii Virtual Console.

Should I bother picking it up or no?