WWF: Hulkamania era (1984-`1992)

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Studd The Dud was gone by Fall of '86 though.

Kamala & Sika Vs The Islanders would be a fun alternate universe undercard match for WrestleMania III.

 

[Valeyard]

Kamala/Duggan. Maybe Kamala/Orndorff in a two minute brawl.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Orndorff was a heel but then again so was Kamala.

They had enough guys on the roster left off the card to do a fairly decent battle royal. If not make the WWF/NFL battle royal an annual part of the show, Vince, you coward.

(I also like the WWF/NFL battle royal at 2 more than 99% of fans)

 

[Valeyard]

Orndorff was going to turn by the end of the year, anyway, and Kamala wasn't going to be around by then. Worse options definitely exist. Besides Orndorff is off a lot of the year and he's also the most deserving of a short spot on the show out of everyone.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yeah and I just waxed enthusiastically about the possibility of another heel Vs heel match.

It is kind of surprising that there wasn’t a quick Kamala or Orndorff squash but they hadn’t fine tuned the formula for WrestleMania. It wasn’t until IV that they really felt the need to throw every noteworthy name on the show.

Cue @BruiserBrody fantasy booking a pre show a 12 man tag of guys left off of WrestleMania IV.

 

[alkeiper]

Orndorff didn’t wrestle from March 20 to June 1. He was hurting from the nerve damage that would shorten his career and I imagine it was in his best interest not to work WM III.

 

[Valeyard]

You say that like he was known for his good decision making in the face of financial gain.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

He also made stupid money during the Hogan run so he probably wasn’t feeling like he had to get that paycheck. Unless he was getting main event, it really isn’t worth risking paralysis for the paycheck (and even that it only is using dumb wrestler logic).

 

[Valeyard]

In my head it's a payday for like five minutes at the a show with the largest crowd to that point and a dream match on top that guaranteed a gigantic payout.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

First of all, Orndorff allegedly did get paid for WrestleMania III, for being on stand by in case Andre wasn’t physically able to perform and they needed a last second replacement.

Second, if we consider Bret to be a reliable narrator, he said he got paid 15k for WMIII in his book. It’s great money but not really long term life changing wealth. I don’t think Orndorff would have gotten paid that much more.

 

[Valeyard]

I mean I don't think Bret's necessarily wrong but I also don't know if Bret's knowledge of payouts is accurate given how removed he was from the singles upper card, all things considered. Like if, say, Piper had a ballpark figure I'd be way more inclined to believe that than Bret in this case.

The alternate for Andre story I think has absolute merit however I'm not sure I believe him getting paid for a show he wasn't on. If it was a scenario like that a few years later, I'm very inclined to believe it. Orndorff would've made more with a quick angle or something with Kamala just because of Kamala's status on top of his not to mention any of those sweet questionable 1980s royalties from the tapes and whatnot.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Yeah and I just waxed enthusiastically about the possibility of another heel Vs heel match.

It is kind of surprising that there wasn’t a quick Kamala or Orndorff squash but they hadn’t fine tuned the formula for WrestleMania. It wasn’t until IV that they really felt the need to throw every noteworthy name on the show.

Cue @BruiserBrody fantasy booking a pre show a 12 man tag of guys left off of WrestleMania IV.

I did the "guys left off the card" battle royal gimmick for the early Manias in one of the WM threads.

 

[snuffbox]

Lol, you guys. This whole thing was a fantasy booking bullshit deal. Of course Studd left in late '86. These kinds of scenarios involve things that didn't happen by their very nature.

 

[BruiserBrody]

In perhaps the dumbest thing I popped for in a promo ever... I was listening to a Sherri promo from Dec 87 on the Wrestling History Grenade and she mentions that Moolah should be at home making spaghetti, not wrestling. Wasn't Sherri's famous homemade dish her pizza spaghetti?

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1729893652237869322

They couldn't have Tito redo a 30 second promo? And they chose to put it on national TV?

 

[Valeyard]

Arribaberci was more about mood than words. It was the awkward stoicism. Never leaned into it enough.

 

[snuffbox]

Chico Santana vs the One Big Man is a main event anywhere in the country

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730398809937903783

USA's top rated show!! So we are moving it to a death slot....

--
Verne moved his syndicated show in Chicago (?) or something to be opposite of TNT supposedly because it disgusted him so much.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730398809937903783

USA's top rated show!! So we are moving it to a death slot....

--
Verne moved his syndicated show in Chicago (?) or something to be opposite of TNT supposedly because it disgusted him so much.

See that’s Vince right there. NO ONE else wanted Tuesday Night Titans to be a thing. I really doubt Gorilla Monsoon said “Gee, Vinnie, a wrestling version of Carson would be a great idea.”

When show turns south, Vince is like “JESUS CHRIST! WHOSE IDEA WAS THIS, PAL?”

 

[SuperMachine#1]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730398809937903783

USA's top rated show!! So we are moving it to a death slot....

--
Verne moved his syndicated show in Chicago (?) or something to be opposite of TNT supposedly because it disgusted him so much.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730398809937903783

USA's top rated show!! So we are moving it to a death slot....

--
Verne moved his syndicated show in Chicago (?) or something to be opposite of TNT supposedly because it disgusted him so much.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1730398809937903783

USA's top rated show!! So we are moving it to a death slot....

--
Verne moved his syndicated show in Chicago (?) or something to be opposite of TNT supposedly because it disgusted him so much.

The pic of the guy in the wig and fake mustache with glasses was Bobby The Brain Heenan on the left picture next to the Tonga Kid. It was a skit where Vince was asking the old geezer who was a fan of old timey wrestling said such names as Gorgeous George,The French Angel,and Antonio Rocca. The voice of the guy Heenans distinctive pattern where its very noticeable its him.

 

[Valeyard]

TNT is wonderful although it's probably to blame more for killing the mystique than anything else.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1731357631963357628

Late ‘91/first half of ‘92 is the pre Attitude Attitude Era. If it weren’t for those dang steroid and sex abuse scandals, going edgy 5-6 years earlier would have worked damn it.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1731357631963357628

Late ‘91/first half of ‘92 is the pre Attitude Attitude Era. If it weren’t for those dang steroid and sex abuse scandals, going edgy 5-6 years earlier would have worked damn it.

Well... the proof was in the pudding. The houses were getting softer even with the harder edge.
Flair promising Liz porn against a righteous Savage did such meh business that Savage was demoted to the bench at the end of the feud, Flair was allowed to head back to WCW and running tiny arenas was the norm.
Flipping the script to the other extreme and making it WAY too sanitized and cartoony didn't work, but I don't think Stone Cold Steve Austin dropping into 1992/93 would have either. The business needed a cool down period after the 80s boom.
Even late 89 was showing weakness in the houses, but they were able to hype and bluster another 1 1/2 years out of Hulkamania.

 

[Valeyard]

It's the best ever. WWF ostensibly during Flair's run is the exact kind of the thing a PG product should be: goofy enough stuff for kids but also rough enough stuff just to the edge to challenge the audience. That period had the best work Jake ever did, had Savage deliver his best promos, some of Flair's best (and most overlooked) work, Warrior doing some honestly kinda disturbing shit with Papa Shango compared to years previous (not GOOD but c'mon, you know what I mean), Bret and Shawn finally breaking through, and brought blood back. I never enjoyed wrestling more than when I was a kid, watching Superstars and seeing all that shit, having my older brothers HATE Flair and Perfect to where they would leave the room if they were on TV too much. Everything hit. The total glee of watching Superstars after WM8 and seeing Flair bloodied up and losing the title is a high I've been chasing ever since. That era is my shit.

I think, if they tried to mature the product slowly over the course of Hulkamania, they end up having a better first half of the 90s. Like ease into it fully, not just here and there and backing off (Rude/Jake could've been super important, for instance, or any of the Hogan/Savage/Liz scenarios people talk about). Like if the product grew up with their audience, I wonder how things change long term.

 

[Tino Standard]

I’m right with you. So many crazy moments from that period.

Beyond what was already mentioned here, you had:
- Rockers breakup on the Barber Shop
- Warrior getting locked in a casket by the Undertaker
- Jake/Warrior stuff (“Trust me!”)
- Nailz running in from the crowd and beating the shit out of Bossman

Hell, you can even throw in the Berserker nearly impaling the Undertaker with his sword as far as batshit stuff from around this time.

 

[Valeyard]

It was pretty magical in a way. It felt for the first time like anything could really happen, and the feeling of chaos surrounding the idea of Hogan not being on top was so fresh and different. The best parts of that era hold up very well. I remember not seeing the cobra angle with Savage until 1998 (my brother apparently didn't let me watch it originally) and it being cooler than anything Raw was doing.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Part of the problem was RAW starting in 1993 diluted the angles a bit as they were running more meaningful TV stuff instead of building HEAT for a program that was to last 3-6 months and drag out on house shows to a PPV/SNME blow off.

Mini-RAW programs I can recall off the top of my head for example (Duggan/HBK, Savage/Doink, Polo vs Kid/Marty, Mike Shaw's lusting for Luna)
--
Of course the talent base falling off didn't help as the territories dying from 1987 onward didn't leave Vince a new batch of ready for prime time guys to build.
WWF did fail to get the most out of the WCW guys they did snag (Luger, Steiners, Gigante, Norman). Big Josh turning into Doink was the rare win in that regard.

The mass talent exodus of 1992/3 also didn't maximize the guys leaving to build another level of talent to use. (Mountie faded away after being announced for SSeries 92, Bulldog vanished the moment he lost the IC title, Bossman went from a hot program with Nailz to losing to Bigelow on PPV and being blinded by Doink to write him off, Savage went from main event to the bench overnight, Earthquake was feuding with the Headshrinkers for a hot minute and then was gone without a blowoff, etc) Flair at least went around the horn jobbing to Bret and then did a RAW job to rush the end of the Perfect program.)

--
Also.... your Warrior/Shango take has to be trolling right? Kamala has already updated his home address for me since he knows you're tanking in the POTY award tourney.

 

[Valeyard]

Conceptually, a man who wears bones with creepy facepaint putting a curse on a guy who was a super hero to bleed black goo from his head uncontrollably and then throw up violently is disturbing. Setting jobbers on fire is always a disturbing notion. It was fucking stupid, but compared to years of sillier stuff, it sticks out. It's like when people started ODing in Captain Planet. And, like I said, it's still cartoony enough for the audience while there's an edge.

They wouldn't have failed a lot of those guys, new and old, if they tried to stay that course. I'm not saying it would've drawn money necessarily but it isn't like it would've caused major issues for talent getting to expand their skillset creatively. That Flair-era product with Luger getting a chance to at least be a Luger is a success.

The Raw-based programs were used to push a new show, so it makes a lot of sense. I don't think it diludes anything and they were all concurrent with those involved doing other, bigger stories. The problem is the stories across the board didn't do much. TV feuds existed before and after with varying results.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

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Hopefully this moves me back up Brod’s rankings.

 

[Valeyard]

I've come to appreciate them both so much over the years, but there's no way it was anything better than okay, and even then that's pushing it.