2016 Election Thread (ROUND FIVE!)

[Mickey Massuco]

http://time.com/4510849/pepe-the-frog-adl-hate-symbol/

well I guess it's official now.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Spoiler

NSFW?

 

[Mickey Massuco]

no way in hell am I opening that rn

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

You have no idea how fitting that response was.

 

[Baby Shoes]

The Arizona newspaper that has always been over the top in its Republican support has backed Hillary - the first Democrat they've backed in a long time. Trump has battled with popular Arizona Republicans like John McCain but there are people losing their shit and I guess the editors have received several death threats.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

I read its the first ever, since they started in 1890. They had some guy from Arizona on msnbc totally befuddled why they couldn't endorse Johnson instead. Johnson had another "Aleppo Moment" (as he called it himself) when he couldn't name a single living world leader he admired, or the Mexican president.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/business/economy/more-wealth-more-jobs-but-not-for-everyone-what-fuels-the-backlash-on-trade.html?emc=edit_ta_20160928&nlid=57331638&ref=cta&_r=2&mtrref=undefined

His first night on the job, his knees gave out. He took painkillers. The next morning he could barely stand up. He called in and said he would not be coming back. He has an interview coming up for a forklift driving position at a warehouse. It pays $12 an hour, another step down.

“I had to tell my son that he can’t go back to McKendree for his junior year,” Mr. Morrison says, straining to choke back tears. “He has to go to community college.”

He swallows hard. Tears emerge from the corners of his eyes.

“It just crushes you,” he says. “I didn’t get to go to college. I wanted my kids to succeed. When you see the disappointment in your kids’ eyes. …”

The frustration of these people is justified and genuine, and Hillary's history wrt globalization/free trade sticks with many of them. Obviously Trump was a terrible benefactor of free trade policies, but the point is he's gone HAM saying the right things now. It's not all about social identity politics, regardless of the dog whistles people use to get elected. A lot of these people care about opportunity above all else.

 

[Damaramu]

He's saying the right things but are he going to do the right things?

Still the bad (social implications, supreme court, etc) outweigh that.

 

[909]

Automation is a bigger problem than trade,and automation is totally unregulated or negotiated. As a result I don't think he's saying the right things on the jobs front either.

If we aren't going to pass any laws protecting workers from automation there won't be many places left for people to work. We had a discussion in the chat room a while ago about self driving cars. The effect that would have on employment would be horrible, and that effect has already been felt in other fields.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

Automation may be a bigger issue moving forward, but trade is in the present and is an ongoing issue that's already left its mark. Also, lots of data suggests that automation creates jobs:

http://www.innovationfiles.org/technology-and-automation-create-not-destroy-jobs/

https://techcrunch.com/2016/05/13/robots-wont-just-take-jobs-theyll-create-them/

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2015/aug/17/technology-created-more-jobs-than-destroyed-140-years-data-census

New jobs will be created in science, technology, engineering and mathematics (STEM) fields like nanotechnology and robotics. A 2011 study found that one million industrial robots directly created nearly three million jobs. Of the six countries examined in the study, five saw their unemployment rates go down as the number of robots used went up.

 

[909]

It's already taking jobs, did you read the article you posted?

All the while, automation has grown in sophistication and reach. From 2000 to 2010, the United States lost some 5.6 million manufacturing jobs, by the government’s calculation. Only 13 percent of those job losses can be explained by trade, according to an analysis by the Center for Business and Economic Research at Ball State University in Indiana. The rest were casualties of automation or the result of tweaks to factory operations that enabled more production with less labor.

American factories produced more goods last year than ever, by many indications. Yet they did so while employing about 12.3 million workers — roughly the same number as in 2009, when production was roughly three-fourths what it is today.

At APM Terminals, where Mr. Duijzers works, a symphony of motion greets every arriving container ship. Cranes rev, lifting containers. But people are scarce. “Robots Running Things in Rotterdam,” proclaims an article on the company website. “Of the 74 machines operating in the yard, 63 run on their own with no human intervention.”

The line about producing more goods than ever is particularly damning.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

The point is it will create new jobs that replace those, and they won't be as labour-intensive either. All the data suggests that will be the case.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/30/job-economy-middle-skill-growth-wage-blue-collar/14797413/

The thing is, people will have to learn the skills required to do them. But these aren't educational opportunities that require super expensive college degrees and difficult medical knowledge or whatever the fuck professional designations, there are not a lot of barriers for people to obtain the skills required.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

There will be a crunch but jobs will be replaced, to me it's like saying we need to save coal jobs at the expense of our environment. I imagine that would be a tough sell in West VA though. Especially because I'm not white (sorry Dandy, I had to).

But there will be a shitton of jobs in clean energy to replace those jobs. Shipping those jobs overseas though...

 

[909]

The point is it will create new jobs that replace those, and they won't be as labour-intensive either. All the data suggests that will be the case.

Yeah, but how does that benefit blue collar workers? Don't think you'll find too many of them in the fields you mentioned. Automation creates jobs in fields where workers are more highly educated, but that does nothing to help lower middle class people get jobs. That's what the problem is.

The charts in the Guardian article do a good job illustrating that. While hard, dangerous, and dull jobs have declined as their article says, it neglects that those are the only jobs a certain kind of people are qualified to do. Those people either have to be left behind or we have to cease technological advances that allow production to become more efficient. Saying "we need to bring manufacturing jobs back" isn't saying the right thing, it's a bogus platitude that neglects the realities of our current situation.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/30/job-economy-middle-skill-growth-wage-blue-collar/14797413/

The thing is, people will have to learn the skills required to do them. But these aren't educational opportunities that require super expensive college degrees and difficult medical knowledge or whatever the fuck professional designations, there are not a lot of barriers for people to obtain the skills required.

Yeah, but they can't. Fact is there are just a lot of people not intelligent enough to learn them, and worst of all our country is structured in a way where people have to take whatever job they can get in order to remain self-sufficient, which prevents anyone lower on the rung from taking time to acquire those skills. A lot of what the Trump movement is about is a fight against intelligence, driven by people who know they aren't intelligent and are PROUD OF IT.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

Oh but there are blue collar workers benefitting:

Cleveland-based Lincoln Electric Automation has been developing customized welding robots for U.S. manufacturers over the past many years. By being able to introduce Lincoln’s robot systems, customers have improved quality and productivity, while preserving the manufacturer’s U.S. factory. This has saved jobs and allowed American manufacturers to expand their operations - and hiring here at home.

This past week, to further complement these efforts, Lincoln announced plans to invest about $30 million in a new Welding Technology Center on its campus. Groundbreaking is expected to start in early 2016. The center, expected to open in 2017, will focus on training welding educators and industry leaders.

Some of you might be familiar with the Little Giant ladders manufactured by Wing Enterprises, Inc. in Springville, Utah. When the company’s sales increased through infomercials a few years back, strains on the production process appeared.

To deal with rising demand, Wing Enterprises acquired welding robot systems from Lincoln. Productivity increased 30% according to Brian Nielsen, an automated fusion technician with Wing. This helped Wing to build a new facility three times its original size and expand from 20 to 400 employees.

Further, Crown Equipment, the Greencastle, Indiana-based manufacturer of electric fork trucks, acquired three Lincoln robot systems to make specialized parts that created a new market for the company. This provided the foundation for an expansion that increased the company’s total number of employees from 200 to 335.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

Regarding those Trumpsters being proud of being dumb, I don't think a society should bend itself backwards to cater to those people. I also don't know if that's true wrt job prospects, I think the anti-intelligence stuff is more related to social issues but you may be right. Either way, the first point stands.

 

[909]

They're anti-intelligence as it relates to global warming, evolution, and lots of other scientific matters. I think it's a fair critique of those people.

I just don't think trade is the only problem with the jobs those people can work. Automation is pretty close and I think the two go together. It's just that the choice either has to be made to leave them behind or not, and I don't feel particularly bad about them being left behind. Obviously the wealth from free trade isn't being distributed the way it should be, and I think we're getting raped.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

You're right, social issues was a poor choice of words. I guess I should have said 'political'. But again, I'm not sure they feel the same way wrt job skill. I don't know, tbh.

the choice either has to be made to leave them behind or not, and I don't feel particularly bad about them being left behind.

 

[909]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I1v7aXYitI

Skip to like 2:50.

 

[vivisectvi]

http://kotaku.com/zapp-brannigans-voice-actor-reading-stupid-donald-trump-1785180841

 

[Edwin]

2016: when a presidential candidate demands that America "check out sex tape."

 

[Damaramu]

I really don't want to vote for either of these people.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

2016: when a presidential candidate references TRTSM poster YPOV to represent the ideal

BASED I like Trump now.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/trump-stirs-old-clinton-sex-scandals-to-the-dismay-of-some-allies/ar-BBwOpbb?li=AAggNb9&ocid=iehp

“This stuff isn’t critical to the campaign or even relevant to the people we need to be winning,” said Carl Paladino, the hard-charging former New York gubernatorial nominee who is the Trump campaign’s co-chairman in that state.

“I’m not sure anyone gives a hell about Monica,” Paladino added.

Trump — whose own extramarital affair and resulting divorce were laid out in lurid detail by the circa 1990 New York tabloids — has said he has been mulling whether to bring up Bill Clinton’s affairs in the next presidential debate.

lirl

 

[Damaramu]

Dadaramu has been posting a ton of meme's about how Lester Holt was mean to Trump and picked on him for stuff that didn't matter while ignoring everything Hillary has done.

 

[CookieMueller]

You can tell someone (probably Kellyanne Conway) told Trump "DO NOT MENTION BILL'S AFFAIR" by the way he patted himself on the back about not bringing it up. He wanted to SO BAD and it's moronic because 1 - he is an adulterer himself and 2 - Bill isn't who he is debating. Hillary is not the one that did anything wrong unless you think about it in a roundabout way like "oh she was complicit" but that won't fly with a lot of women and could end up backfiring in a major way especially if Chelsea is front and center (which I'm sure she will be) for the rest of these debates. If he can't see how scummy that is, and apparently he doesn't, I just don't know. His base will love it but he's not playing to his base at these debates. He needs to start winning over some undecided women and attacking a woman over her husband's affairs, something out of her control, isn't the way.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

Apparently the Trump Foundation never got certification to solicite for money in NY State. Also some of the biggest papers in the country came out against Trump, AZ Central endorsed Hillary (going back to 1890), USA Today which has a tradition of not taking sides, declared Trump unfit to be POTUS but didn't actually endorse Hillary, and The Detroit News for the first time in 143 years didn't endorse a GOP candidate, saying they can't support Trump. They endorsed Johhson instead. Newspapers aren't as influential as they used to be but still have impact especially with older voters.

The biggest story though is Trump violating the Cuban Embargo

http://www.newsweek.com/2016/10/14/donald-trump-cuban-embargo-castro-violated-florida-504059.html which has Cuban-American Republicans in Florida pissed. It has a real chance of costing him Florida now.

A company controlled by Donald Trump, the Republican nominee for president, secretly conducted business in Communist Cuba during Fidel Castro’s presidency despite strict American trade bans that made such undertakings illegal, according to interviews with former Trump executives, internal company records and court filings.

 

[AA484]

 

[Baby Shoes]

Trump also got told by Phoenix to pull campaign ads because he used pictures of their officers without permission in his ads.

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/phoenix/2016/09/29/phoenix-demands-trump-campaign-pull-ad-over-depiction-officers/91300312/