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21st Century Fantasy Wrestling Draft
- Thread starter Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
- Start date
OG
OG
I want the deepest tag division in the world.
Best Friends (Chuck Taylor & Trent Beretta)
Best Friends (Chuck Taylor & Trent Beretta)
I would embed this into the thread if I could, and yes I have been listening to this the last ten minutes.
My first pick is...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6Kkn0RuQns
HEHHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA MY WORLD MY WORLD MY WORLDDDDDDDD
You guys probably thought I'd do that.
My second pick is...
EC3
My first pick is...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6Kkn0RuQns
HEHHAHAHHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA MY WORLD MY WORLD MY WORLDDDDDDDD
You guys probably thought I'd do that.
My second pick is...
EC3
Literally having visions of Jarrett teaming up with to bury others or burying nearly about 50-60% of the wrestlers picked so far and ones who will be picked before the end
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5r0Je11fzZY
All these guys are picked now so I can share this, a match I was thinking about for a few days. Despite what the booking is, and the convoluted rules, I remember watching this at the time and feeling that this was what a PPV main event was supposed to feel like. It seemed like their title actually mattered, and even though they fucked up like always by having Jarrett win, this match shows me exactly what's wrong with WWE. WWE always does shit to make these kinds of matches feel like they don't matter at all, and because of that they now have the TNA 2010 level ratings they richly deserve.
Jarrett was a great heel, and TNA chose to build their company in a way that was completely different than how most other wrestling companies have been built. WWE has always decided to build their company around having the top babyface demolish all challengers, only to later job them out in the worst way possible and effectively bury those babyfaces in the eyes of all the fans. Sometimes they keep pushing them and doing this over and over again for years. With TNA making matches like these, they had a lot of guys who should, or were, or did become stars, in this match here with Jarrett. TNA was also smart in establishing a clear second group of X Division and tag team guys who also busted their ass in an attempt to finally get those WWE paychecks. AEW decided to do this with Jericho, but the key difference is that they didn't stick them all in one match. In putting all these TNA guys in this match, and by consistently doing this, it was a showcase for them that usually allowed those guys to get paid a hell of a lot more money either by TNA or WWE. Jarrett and TNA both were also really good in making fans feel like the results of title matches were truly unpredictable and that anyone could win. I'm not going to give Vince Russo any credit for that, because ultimately that responsibility lies with the performers and those who announce the matches. If only Vinnie Mac knew that.
These days it is clear to me that Jarrett's reign as the top heel was ultimately a success. While he was a good worker, and definitely better than a lot of other guys who have been top heels in other companies, I would not argue that I really enjoyed this run. Maybe I would if I watched it all again, I must repeat that I really hated it at the time. But, his reign as a top heel led to a money mark pouring hundreds of millions into a company and luring in people that were so incompetent they made Jarrett's run on top look much better. Jarrett also now has his WWE job back as a result of all this, so they recognize his success the same way everyone should.
Perhaps most importantly is that WWE was going to give basically everyone who got over in TNA either pushes on Sunday Night Heat or $500 a week to be job boys in OVW. Guys who left WWE would have had absolutely nowhere to go without TNA, and WWE did take a lot of guys away from TNA and give them a good payday. This could only have happened if TNA had existed in the first place to showcase their talent. To me this solidifies Jarrett's status as one of the most important figures in wrestling since the turn of the century. I'm not trolling either. That company still exists because it was willed into existence.
I totally get why nobody picked him before now, but I think he's better than Randy Orton for example. Guy who cared a lot and gave everything in the ring vs. guy who never gave a shit about any program ever
All these guys are picked now so I can share this, a match I was thinking about for a few days. Despite what the booking is, and the convoluted rules, I remember watching this at the time and feeling that this was what a PPV main event was supposed to feel like. It seemed like their title actually mattered, and even though they fucked up like always by having Jarrett win, this match shows me exactly what's wrong with WWE. WWE always does shit to make these kinds of matches feel like they don't matter at all, and because of that they now have the TNA 2010 level ratings they richly deserve.
Jarrett was a great heel, and TNA chose to build their company in a way that was completely different than how most other wrestling companies have been built. WWE has always decided to build their company around having the top babyface demolish all challengers, only to later job them out in the worst way possible and effectively bury those babyfaces in the eyes of all the fans. Sometimes they keep pushing them and doing this over and over again for years. With TNA making matches like these, they had a lot of guys who should, or were, or did become stars, in this match here with Jarrett. TNA was also smart in establishing a clear second group of X Division and tag team guys who also busted their ass in an attempt to finally get those WWE paychecks. AEW decided to do this with Jericho, but the key difference is that they didn't stick them all in one match. In putting all these TNA guys in this match, and by consistently doing this, it was a showcase for them that usually allowed those guys to get paid a hell of a lot more money either by TNA or WWE. Jarrett and TNA both were also really good in making fans feel like the results of title matches were truly unpredictable and that anyone could win. I'm not going to give Vince Russo any credit for that, because ultimately that responsibility lies with the performers and those who announce the matches. If only Vinnie Mac knew that.
These days it is clear to me that Jarrett's reign as the top heel was ultimately a success. While he was a good worker, and definitely better than a lot of other guys who have been top heels in other companies, I would not argue that I really enjoyed this run. Maybe I would if I watched it all again, I must repeat that I really hated it at the time. But, his reign as a top heel led to a money mark pouring hundreds of millions into a company and luring in people that were so incompetent they made Jarrett's run on top look much better. Jarrett also now has his WWE job back as a result of all this, so they recognize his success the same way everyone should.
Perhaps most importantly is that WWE was going to give basically everyone who got over in TNA either pushes on Sunday Night Heat or $500 a week to be job boys in OVW. Guys who left WWE would have had absolutely nowhere to go without TNA, and WWE did take a lot of guys away from TNA and give them a good payday. This could only have happened if TNA had existed in the first place to showcase their talent. To me this solidifies Jarrett's status as one of the most important figures in wrestling since the turn of the century. I'm not trolling either. That company still exists because it was willed into existence.
I totally get why nobody picked him before now, but I think he's better than Randy Orton for example. Guy who cared a lot and gave everything in the ring vs. guy who never gave a shit about any program ever
Big Papa Paegan
L. A. Z.
I'll defend the King of the Mountain match as a concept and always thought the "it's too convoluted" criticism was stupid. Pin to advance, get pinned and go in the box, hang the belt to win. It's still less convoluted than real sports since there are only 3 rules, which is even less than your average straightforward match in kayfabe, but since it isn't "retrieve the belt" or "escape the cage" levels of simple...
No defense for keeping Jarrett on top at all expense, though. It literally killed their first territory and their peaks in popularity were all with Jarrett away from the main.
No defense for keeping Jarrett on top at all expense, though. It literally killed their first territory and their peaks in popularity were all with Jarrett away from the main.
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
CWM, can you check in on 909 to see if he's developed a serious drinking problem during this period of isolation? Jarett > Orton is a NUCLEAR take and I'm not even an Orton stan (and I like Double J and think he should've/could've been drafted 10 rounds ago).
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
Time to pick my opponents in the Junior Heavyweight Tag Team Titles match and complete my opener for the PPV. I think they're a very fun contrast to Roppongi 3K. I think it's perfect way to kick off a show in Vegas. Who will win the battle between Tokyo Party Boys and NYC Party Boys?
https://youtu.be/snaJzm-FNxQ
Private Party (Isiah Kassidy and Marq Quen)
https://youtu.be/snaJzm-FNxQ
Private Party (Isiah Kassidy and Marq Quen)
I don't think Jarrett over Orton is that crazy, even though I'd probably take Orton as well. Orton had the worse matches though, but Jarrett was never in anything I'd call a classic like the Foley match and Jarrett seemed to struggle to get out of the *** 1/4 range. Orton has had a lot of matches I'd have in the **** range, but he basically works to the level to his opponent and rarely if ever has carried an opponent worse than him. He also had quite a few matches I'd have in negative stars territory and I don't think Jarrett was ever that bad.
Jarrett's biggest flaw, and this might be a hot take itself, is that he's a better worker as a fired up Baby face than a heel and stayed heel way too long. Pretty much all the Jarrett stuff I thought was close to great like the brawl with Angle and his USWA stuff like the brawl with The Moondogs were when he was a face. Like Orton, he could get really dull and chinlock heavy as a heel.
Jarrett's biggest flaw, and this might be a hot take itself, is that he's a better worker as a fired up Baby face than a heel and stayed heel way too long. Pretty much all the Jarrett stuff I thought was close to great like the brawl with Angle and his USWA stuff like the brawl with The Moondogs were when he was a face. Like Orton, he could get really dull and chinlock heavy as a heel.
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
Jeff Jarrett did everything we just complained about Triple H doing except on a much smaller scale.
I'd say the average Double J match is better than the average Randall K Orton match but he just has one classic whereas Orton has a small handful.
I'd say the average Double J match is better than the average Randall K Orton match but he just has one classic whereas Orton has a small handful.
Brooklyn Zoo
BZ
- Messages
- 17,679
- Reaction score
- 757
- Points
- 263
Roddy Piper
BUSHI
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
'00s Piper is an underrated pick. I feel like he was better than WCW Piper because at some point, someone must've told him to stop trying to do much corny topical dad humor like he was Dennis Miller and just go back to being a nasty, straight shooting sonuvabitch. Great choice for a manager and I definitely considered snagging him to second Punk for my main event.
Mickey Massuco
wipeoff
STUDZ said:
his match with hbk was arguably better
Mickey Massuco
wipeoff
never thought i'd see an essay defending the double juice box, but as a fan of trash
i approve
i approve
Ah shit I knew I was missing a big Jarrett match in my post. I completely forgot about the HBK match. That is a classic. To be fair I just woke up when I wrote that, and normally I don't like to think about Randy Orton or Jeff Jarrett when I wake up.
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
Spend my days working hard on the go but the hands on the clock keep ticking too slow and I can't wait to post with my Baby (Shoes) tonight.
Baby Shoes
Baby Shoes
- Messages
- 25,397
- Reaction score
- 2,223
- Points
- 293
There’s definitely bigger names still on the board and there are definitely better workers still on the board but I am using this round to draft a couple specific spot fillers for the rosters I have now, before seeing what I can throw together in the final rounds
Orlando Jordan
“Sick” Nick Mondo
Orlando Jordan
“Sick” Nick Mondo
Now that I remember the HBK match, I'm convinced now. JARRETT IS BETTER THAN ORTON
This earth is not your place
The pale skin is on your face
If you step inside with me
You will see a king
He aint dead
He is jeff
Don't wanna hear your
Big mouth talk
In my world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
(My world!)
I get high, low pain
Welcome to
The who's insane
(Hold your lies and
Accusations dont
Mine ya to your situations)
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
(My world!)
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
This earth is not your place
The pale skin is on your face
If you step inside with me
You will see a king
He aint dead
He is jeff
Don't wanna hear your
Big mouth talk
In my world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
(My world!)
I get high, low pain
Welcome to
The who's insane
(Hold your lies and
Accusations dont
Mine ya to your situations)
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
(My world!)
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
My world!
Time to leave my mark
In my world!
Now in the cold, in the dark
Mickey Massuco
wipeoff
Master Thrasher
Seven Time Tetris 99 Champ!
Balls Mahoney
And the GOAT of all heels.
WWE Hall of Famer Donald Trump
King Mutumbo Classic said:
I don't drink
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Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
I really wanted V Squared, Val Venis' C show tag team with Viscera from the mid '00s in my four corners tag team match.
How has Val Venis not been picked yet? I know 21st century was past his prime-character wise but he was probably in his prime as a worker in the mid '00s! I hope he goes undrafted so YPOV can build his scraps card around him.
This pisses me off more than a message forum has ever pissed me off before. Even though it's just text from someone that I will never meet, it pisses me off. Not just because I'm a Morley mark, but because people are so dimwitted they have to always use the same excuses for everything.
His matches are repetitive? Fuck you. Alright. Just straight fuck you. This is the WWE. EVERY match is repetitive. Every fucking one. That's what happens when you only get four minutes to work. I think, no fuck that, I KNOW Val is the best wrestler on RAW. Yeah, that's right. Better than Jericho, better than RVD & better than Lance Storm. You can call me crazy all you want, but I know what I have seen. Morley always...ALWAYS entertains me. On the stick, in the ring, everywhere. He should be a main eventer by now. Especially after having to go through all the "Val Venis" bullshit.
He is WAY above average in the wrestling department. "Average at best?" Fucking please. Rodney Mack is average at best. Test is average at best. Morley is better than half the roster (including Smackdown). Average at best means that when he has his best nights, it's only average. Or, it could mean if you added up all of his matches and rated them on quality, then divided by the number of matches you would end up with a number that was "average" based on a scale that would have to be made up as well. Fuck that. Did you even think before you typed that?
His offense is rather dull aside from a few moves like the Blue Thunder? Why's that? Because not every single move he uses is exclusive to him? I beg to differ. He executes all of his moves well. He has a great finisher. The 'Money Shot' is highly underrated. Everytime I see it I just have flashbacks to Jimmy Snuka days. Just because he doesn't do twenty moonsaults and six corkscrews before hitting a body splash doesn't mean that it can't still be impressive.
I swear, it's like people have selective viewing habits. If you don't think Morley is talented, you shouldn't be allowed to form an opinion about wrestling on a wrestling forum. The same people that preach about Chris Jericho, Booker T. & The Hurricane had better damn well see something in Morley.
Now I'm bitter. I can't believe that someone would go out of their way to call Morley average. I've never even seen Morley botch a spot! Remember his feud with D-Lo way back when for the IC title? Yeah, he was even good back then. I've also never heard about Morley being hard to work with or causing problems backstage. In fact, whenever I do read something about him, it's usually just something like him going to another wrestlers wedding. That just shows that he's a nice guy with a lot of friends. I guess we all know where nice guys finish.
I just think it's a case of the good old TSM double standard again. I have no doubt in my mind that if people talked about Morley as much as they talk about some other 'Smark Darlings" everyone would act like they liked him. Why? Because this place is full of fucking sheep. Just a bunch of damn bandwagon jumpers. It makes me sick. It's like everyone just tries to fit in. Everyone likes the same five wrestlers...and I know that they are talented, but I guarantee half of the people that act like they like Guerrero or Jericho only say that to try and fit in here. The reasoning is because they don't want to be "ran off" for having a different opinion. Don't act like it wouldn't happen either, because it's happened in the past.
It's not just a difference of opinion either. You might not like Morley as much as me, that's fine. You might think other wrestlers are better than him, that's fine too. Those are opinions, I'll admit that. Saying the man is not talented or is average is not an opinion. Not to me. To me it's false information. It's bullshit. He obviously has talent. OBVIOUSLY. If you can't see that, quit watching wrestling because you wouldn't know talent it it took you out into the middle of the street and blew your brains out.
His matches are repetitive? Fuck you. Alright. Just straight fuck you. This is the WWE. EVERY match is repetitive. Every fucking one. That's what happens when you only get four minutes to work. I think, no fuck that, I KNOW Val is the best wrestler on RAW. Yeah, that's right. Better than Jericho, better than RVD & better than Lance Storm. You can call me crazy all you want, but I know what I have seen. Morley always...ALWAYS entertains me. On the stick, in the ring, everywhere. He should be a main eventer by now. Especially after having to go through all the "Val Venis" bullshit.
He is WAY above average in the wrestling department. "Average at best?" Fucking please. Rodney Mack is average at best. Test is average at best. Morley is better than half the roster (including Smackdown). Average at best means that when he has his best nights, it's only average. Or, it could mean if you added up all of his matches and rated them on quality, then divided by the number of matches you would end up with a number that was "average" based on a scale that would have to be made up as well. Fuck that. Did you even think before you typed that?
His offense is rather dull aside from a few moves like the Blue Thunder? Why's that? Because not every single move he uses is exclusive to him? I beg to differ. He executes all of his moves well. He has a great finisher. The 'Money Shot' is highly underrated. Everytime I see it I just have flashbacks to Jimmy Snuka days. Just because he doesn't do twenty moonsaults and six corkscrews before hitting a body splash doesn't mean that it can't still be impressive.
I swear, it's like people have selective viewing habits. If you don't think Morley is talented, you shouldn't be allowed to form an opinion about wrestling on a wrestling forum. The same people that preach about Chris Jericho, Booker T. & The Hurricane had better damn well see something in Morley.
Now I'm bitter. I can't believe that someone would go out of their way to call Morley average. I've never even seen Morley botch a spot! Remember his feud with D-Lo way back when for the IC title? Yeah, he was even good back then. I've also never heard about Morley being hard to work with or causing problems backstage. In fact, whenever I do read something about him, it's usually just something like him going to another wrestlers wedding. That just shows that he's a nice guy with a lot of friends. I guess we all know where nice guys finish.
I just think it's a case of the good old TSM double standard again. I have no doubt in my mind that if people talked about Morley as much as they talk about some other 'Smark Darlings" everyone would act like they liked him. Why? Because this place is full of fucking sheep. Just a bunch of damn bandwagon jumpers. It makes me sick. It's like everyone just tries to fit in. Everyone likes the same five wrestlers...and I know that they are talented, but I guarantee half of the people that act like they like Guerrero or Jericho only say that to try and fit in here. The reasoning is because they don't want to be "ran off" for having a different opinion. Don't act like it wouldn't happen either, because it's happened in the past.
It's not just a difference of opinion either. You might not like Morley as much as me, that's fine. You might think other wrestlers are better than him, that's fine too. Those are opinions, I'll admit that. Saying the man is not talented or is average is not an opinion. Not to me. To me it's false information. It's bullshit. He obviously has talent. OBVIOUSLY. If you can't see that, quit watching wrestling because you wouldn't know talent it it took you out into the middle of the street and blew your brains out.
Cackling Co Pilot Kamala
Integral Poster
Also knowing what we know now about Val is it possible that Coffey was just The Big Valbowsky in disguise?
Mickey Massuco
wipeoff
King Mutumbo Classic said:
I've brought it up before.
