Star Wars Franchise Discussion

[Kahran Ramsus]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

As far as I can tell, the only thing that he knew for a fact had to be in the prequels was Vader being beaten by Obi-Wan, disfigured, and left to die. I recall reading in some old Star Wars book (this was years ago, when I was still a child) about the battle between Vader and Obi-Wan, and it said how Obi-Wan fought him and ended the battle by sending Vader into the lava.

I believe that was the novelization of Return of the Jedi.

The early drafts of Return of the Jedi also had the final confrontation between Luke, Vader & Palpatine occurring on a lava world.

Sort of. Anakin being Vader didn't come into being until he was writing ESB, as he felt the existence of the Father Skywalker character as a former heroic Jedi wasn't that interesting, especially given that he had effectively been replaced as a mentor by Obi-Wan and Yoda. Making him Darth upped the intrigue, removed redundancy, and gave the ending a much bigger punch then Luke just refusing to join Vader. There's actually earlier drafts of Empire with his father actually showing up as a ghost on Dagobah to talk to Luke.

Originally Vader wasn't nearly as important a character as he ended up being. In the original drafts of A New Hope he is little more than just a regular Imperial General. Elements of this actually made it into the first film, where he is clearly subservient to Tarkin. But he was far cooler than the other characters so he got a big following and his role was substantially increased in the sequels.

Also in the early drafts of the original Star Wars, both Vader and Luke's father appear and they are definitely NOT the same character.

Another change made in ESB was changing the Emperor to the main villain. The plan as of A New Hope, and this even shows up in the novelization, was that the Emperor was just a feeble old puppet for the military industrial complex that was really in charge of the Empire. Think something similar to Japan in World War II, although Hirohito wasn't an old man.

 

[CBright7831]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

As far as I can tell, the only thing that he knew for a fact had to be in the prequels was Vader being beaten by Obi-Wan, disfigured, and left to die. I recall reading in some old Star Wars book (this was years ago, when I was still a child) about the battle between Vader and Obi-Wan, and it said how Obi-Wan fought him and ended the battle by sending Vader into the lava.

That was in the novel for Return of the Jedi. In the same novel, Palpatine taunts Luke about Yoda's death and mentions a battle that Yoda and him once had.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

As far as I can tell, the only thing that he knew for a fact had to be in the prequels was Vader being beaten by Obi-Wan, disfigured, and left to die. I recall reading in some old Star Wars book (this was years ago, when I was still a child) about the battle between Vader and Obi-Wan, and it said how Obi-Wan fought him and ended the battle by sending Vader into the lava.

That was in the novel for Return of the Jedi. In the same novel, Palpatine taunts Luke about Yoda's death and mentions a battle that Yoda and him once had.

He probably had a few plot points in mind for the backstory, such as what the Clone Wars were about, Palpatine's rise to power, Vader's fall, etc. But there is a big difference between that and the final scripts and in between is where the prequels fell apart. He didn't have enough material to properly cover three films so there is a ton of padding and stuff that doesn't work. That Lucas is a terrible director of actors (just ask Harrison Ford) just made things worse.

 

[Mattdotcom]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

I honestly don't believe Lucas knew what the Clone Wars were about until he had to write Episode II

 

[BorneAgain]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Probably not. What barest hints did exist in pre-1999 material suggested the Clone Wars were possibly against the Mandalorians, but given how vague it was mentioned, yeah Lucas likely didn't not conceive of it until the late 90s at the absolute earliest. Supposedly during an earlier draft of Empire Lando was supposed to be a clone, possibly one of the last ones left.

 

[BlackFlagg]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Well, that could have explained how he was seemingly the only black man in the galaxy <-<

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

I honestly don't believe Lucas knew what the Clone Wars were about until he had to write Episode II

I would hope that he had at least a basic idea since it was big part of the backstory from all the back in Episode IV. I have nothing to say that you are wrong though.

 

[Sabre]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Concerning Vader.

If i remember correctly i had a collectors magazine around 1997 that said Vader was originally suppose to have the helmet to allow ship to ship travel, but he liked the look of it so much he kept it as a permanent breathing apparatus.

 

[Damaramu]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Probably not. What barest hints did exist in pre-1999 material suggested the Clone Wars were possibly against the Mandalorians, but given how vague it was mentioned, yeah Lucas likely didn't not conceive of it until the late 90s at the absolute earliest. Supposedly during an earlier draft of Empire Lando was supposed to be a clone, possibly one of the last ones left.

That's something that never seems to be explored to me, the Mandalorians.

And I know a lot of people watch the prequels and go "All Stormtroopers are clones" but I don't think that was the intent either.

 

[The Metal Maniac]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

But all the stormtroopers are clones. In the Special Editions, every single line of stormtrooper dialogue (and all 5 lines that Boba Fett has) is overdubbed by the guy who played Jango Fett, so they all sound the same.

I too was under the impression that the Mandalorians were supposed to play a big part in the Clone War; I was dissapointed when I learned that there wasn't going to be a whole army of guys who looked like Boba Fett (in terms of armour), but I did think it was neat that the early stormtrooper armour was a cross between Mandalorian armour and later stormtrooper armour.

 

[Anakin Flair]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

The Storm Troopers in the prequels are all clones. In the OT, Storm Troopers were meant to be conscripts.

The Mandalorian culture was really fleshed out in the novels, especially in the Legacy of the Force series (and most of the Karen Traviss Star Wars books), but apparently Lucas disregarded almost everything when he brought them into the Clone Wars cartoon (don't know for sure, haven't seen the relevant episodes). If it is true, then it's a shame as Karen created a rich, detailed culture on par with the Klingons on how complete it was (down to the language).

I hate to say it, but I am tempted to see Ep. 1 in 3-D. It wasn't the best movie, but I enjoyed it enough that I may see how the 3-D conversion went.

 

[Sabre]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Considering the general quality of the releases every time they get um, released.

Badly.

 

[Mattdotcom]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

I hate to say it, but I am tempted to see Ep. 1 in 3-D. It wasn't the best movie, but I enjoyed it enough that I may see how the 3-D conversion went.

http://www.domesticviolenceseries.com/denial.htm

 

[Ed Wood Caulfield]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Lucas was talking about doing 9 movies even in 1997.

 

[DrVenkman PhD]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

I remember reading that in a Cinema-something magazine. It was a hot topic among people at an out of town lacrosse tournament.

 

[Rendclaw]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

I just hope he passes on the legacy to someone a hell of a lot more capable than he when he kicks, because if he somehow nuts up and directs Episodes VII-X, its going to make I-III look wonderful by comparison.

 

[Sabre]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

You would think he would realise that the two movies people generally love are the ones not directed by him.

I fear what empire would be like if he had the helm.

 

[Damaramu]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Where do you guys learn this much about Star Wars and all the lore behind what was supposed to be what and what Lucas was planning?

 

[Mattdotcom]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

We spent time reading articles instead of asking asinine questions all the time (j/k I regret doing that). At least now I know enough about Star Wars now to know how shitty it and its creator are.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Not cool, #Poundtown.

You would think he would realise that the two movies people generally love are the ones not directed by him.

I fear what empire would be like if he had the helm.

P. sure the OT hierarchy goes: 1) Empire, 2) ANH, 3) Jedi, so the #2 movie was directed by him.

 

[Mattdotcom]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Not cool, #Poundtown.

Not my fault only 33% of these movies are good.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

The OT is aces, so that puts it at 50%. Sith is OK, too.

EDI: We're talking original Han-shoots-first versions, not the Special Editions.

 

[Damaramu]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

I wonder how different Star Wars would be if all his original ideas came spilling out and weren't ever refined. Or how shitty.

 

[BorneAgain]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Where do you guys learn this much about Star Wars and all the lore behind what was supposed to be what and what Lucas was planning?

The books Secret History of Star Wars, and Star Wars: The Annotated Screenplays reveal a lot, though the latter has the usual Lucas spinning on some things.

 

[BorneAgain]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Some of the various interviews with Gary Kurtz and others are a good resource too.

 

[BorneAgain]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Lesson: Don't try and modify your own posts when sleepy and/or not paying attention.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

These last 2 Christmases I got The Making of Star Wars and The Making of The Empire Strikes Back, both by JW Rinzler. Both a p. good reads, going into the evolution of the scripts, the financing of the movies, the birth of ILM and Lucasfilm, as well as concept artwork & storyboards (McQuarrie & others), pictures, etc. They're each around $50 or so on Amazon.com for the hardcover versions, but if you like the movies, they are well worth it.

 

[Sabre]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Not cool, #Poundtown.

You would think he would realise that the two movies people generally love are the ones not directed by him.

I fear what empire would be like if he had the helm.

P. sure the OT hierarchy goes: 1) Empire, 2) ANH, 3) Jedi, so the #2 movie was directed by him.

Really? As much as i love the OT ive always personally ranked ANH last.

 

[DrVenkman PhD]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

There is a chart that explains what age breakdown likes and dislikes Jedi (it's an Ewok acceptance thing).

 

[Sabre]

Re: Star Wars Thread II: A Lack of the Posts

Now, i HATE the ewoks as the force that took down the empire on Endor, but that chart makes sence as im a 84 kid.