The Attitude Era Thread Vol 1

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yeah they had that super long segment where JR introduced the legends of St. Louis Wrestling to fill in the time that Pillman-Goldust would have happened. That was originally supposed to be a feel good, pre show segment (although I doubt '97 WWF fans cared about JR waxing nostalgic about Sam Muchnick, Lou Thesz, and Dory Funk Jr. Sorry Brody and al).

It did give us the weird as hell dichotomy of Lou Thesz appearing on the same night as debut of Hell in a Cell and Kane tho.

 

[alkeiper]

Sam Muchnick on a WWF show in 1997 is pretty high on my "that happened?!" list.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

IIRC that segment might have even gotten booed due to how long and boring it was. Sorry @BruiserBrody and JR.

Badd Blood: In Your House is the definitive "Watch the main event and skip the rest" PPV. My lord, the rest of that PPV is ass. Which I mean given the circumstances is totally understandable.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Pillman died the night before/morning of.

I worded that very poorly. Thank you for clarifying my Brody to English.

 

[Super Leather]

I have never been a particularly big fan of Kane, but he surprised me in my catchup with 1997/early '98 Monday Night Raw a while back. Great presence, great presentation. Totally watchable. I didn't hate him, but it was all downhill from there.

Pillman was another guy who never really got over with me, at least not until he became the Loose Cannon and therefore interesting. Sometimes I wonder how different the Attitude Era would have been had he lived.

 

[Valeyard]

It's easy to forget how bad Pillman was in '97, though. His work in the following years would have been legendary but the matches would've all been letdowns, even with the style changing to hide a lot of his problems. But like, I never got my Pillman/Taker dream match so I could cope, kinda.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

If Pillman had lived, he would have been forced into retiring not too long after he actually died. Maybe he would've replaced Lawler as the lead color commentator for WWF instead of Heyman after Lawler simped for Kat and got himself fired.

 

[Valeyard]

Quitting because they fired your wife is not simping although Lawler really did make simping his whole career, didn't he?

Pillman would've gotten programs with Austin and Owen, then just fully be made to retire. That'd be great but I think he'd hate being shoved into that role again. I've always thought he'd have jumped back to WCW or ECW at some point, though.

 

[snuffbox]

Sometimes I wonder if WCW bookers hadn't stop/started Pillman pushes about 40 times between 1989-1992, maybe he wouldn't have ended up with all the problems, maybe didn't wreck that Jeep, worsened his problems, etc. Maybe we could've had an over, prime Brian Pillman through the 90s and a still-good Pillman working with Angle, Punk, Styles, Bryan, etc into the 2010s.

I probably shouldn't dwell on these kinda things too long.

 

[Fall of Epic]

Pillman post '95 is all character work. I can't name a single interesting thing about his in-ring ability during that time but his promos, facial selling, and presence were all top notch.

 

[snuffbox]

I still think the Hollywood Blondes would've become an all time great (maybe goat) tag team if they got a long enough run. But it was more important to give that push to Pretty Wonderful in 1994 because WCW.

And I agree with the positive takes on early Kane. It's been 23 years but the vs Undertaker match at WM14 is still rewatchable.

 

[Valeyard]

I love the Blonde and wish I'd had WCW to watch them way back, but watching them now just breaks my heart because they should've been the team of the decade. Like knowing they coincided with Money Inc and the Heavenly Bodies on the WWF shows is unfair.

It doesn't seem too out of the question for the Blondes to wind up as Horsemen, Pillman go crazy, and Austin getting cut after Pillman leaves. Just very WCW. This is assuming Paul Roma doesn't become the breakout star he did.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

D-Von Dudley Details Why He Doesn't "Do Business Anymore" With Bully Ray

D-Von Dudley's in-ring days may be behind him, but the decorated tag team wrestler still contributes to professional wrestling on the daily as a producer.…

www.wrestlinginc.com

D’Von and Bubba Ray had a falling out over WWE not wanting Bubba to have a singles run as Bully Ray.

As forgettable as that 2015-16 Dudleys run was, why the hell did Bubba think him doing his sulking, edgelord shithead schtick would go any better in modern WWE?

 

[BruiserBrody]

D-Von Dudley Details Why He Doesn't "Do Business Anymore" With Bully Ray

D-Von Dudley's in-ring days may be behind him, but the decorated tag team wrestler still contributes to professional wrestling on the daily as a producer.…

www.wrestlinginc.com

D’Von and Bubba Ray had a falling out over WWE not wanting Bubba to have a singles run as Bully Ray.

As forgettable as that 2015-16 Dudleys run was, why the hell did Bubba think him doing his sulking, edgelord shithead schtick would go any better in modern WWE?

Maybe Bubba was smart enough to know a nostalgia run would give them maybe 6 months of a lift before the allure wore off? A singles run in WWE would at least have been something different and could have given his career a last boost.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

To be fair, wasting one of the hottest acts from THE hottest period in your company's history after one of them has a few years' worth of his own reasonably hot act wasn't a good look for WWE.

But alas, Vince doesn't like tag teams. Which is dumb. Because some of the biggest names he's ever had worked tag teams first.

 

[Valeyard]

Bully never would've fit in and everyone would just be pissed busted up Bubba Ray was getting a push over everyone.

Also gotta say one more time that one of the biggest draws to the non/lapsed fans I know was SAVE THE TABLES being a viral thing. Mistake was making New Day the heels.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Everyone saw how terrible Bully Ray's ROH run was and I don't feel like WWE's would've been much better or different except for less swearing and middle aged man edginess.


Honestly, the more I think about it, the less I dislike the Dudleys mid 2010s comeback. The New Day and Wyatt Family feud really weren't too shabby and probably how you should use aging talent. Only issue is they should have been heels earlier.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1448691146545377286

 

[Valeyard]

I really like the Aztec gear, but I think my biggest problem with Jarrett was always the stupid Double J suspenders.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

The Aztec gear is literally what he ended up wearing a version of for the rest of his post-suspenders career. He brought back the trunks once he lost the hair match and started hitting women with guitars.

 

[The Amazing Rando]

Jarrett always always always felt to me like the guy someone beats before they move on to the fringe of the main event scene. He had a perfectly punchable face and was good enough as a heel that you always did want to see him get the shit kicked out of him. If his career started ten years later he'd probably have been perfect in that "somehow ends up with the IC/US title once or twice a year" heel role that would transition that belt to the next big babyface star they would be pushing at the time. Like pre-MITB Dolph Ziggler.

 

[Valeyard]

Jarrett was never a top guy in a real promotion. Just wasn't. Stuck out so bad.

Aztec singlet needed a longer run. I mean you have that gear and never get it covered in any blood? C'mon man. Where is the love of the business

 

[strummer]

Undertaker v Jarrett at IYH: DX is the most random, wait this actually happened ppv match from that era or any era really

And Jarrett didn't even job!

 

[BruiserBrody]

Imagine if Jerry Jarrett really did get power in 1994. Maybe Instead of the Kliq we'd have Lawler and Jarrett getting moved up the card. Jarrett also thought Vince was crazy for benching Hogan and Savage. Hogan was already WCW bound* by the time Vince would have been convicted, but Savage may have seen his last run on top. Maybe the USWA is merged with SMW (Going with the logic than Jarrett opts out of running Memphis with the WWF on his plate) and they become the feeder system even more than they already had been.
Jarrett and Lawler weren't shy about cartoon gimmicks, so maybe not much else changes other than the Kliq is forced to tow the line more than they did and Bret probably becomes Jarrett's ace.

* Technically, if the WON can be believed, WCW was plugging Hogan in the spring without pen to paper being delivered, so there could be a scenario where Jarrett makes a counter offer than the real timeline Vince wasn't terribly interested in.

 

[Valeyard]

Jarrett was in with the Clique too, and I think Savage sorta was, so maybe it'd be bigger. Seeing what an overhaul would've been like is interesting. At the same time, though, with the Jarretts in charge we don't get Austin coming in.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1449752026108289027

This seemed like a big moment until WWE realized that intergender wrestling and starring in pornography is wrong.

Undertaker v Jarrett at IYH: DX is the most random, wait this actually happened ppv match from that era or any era really

And Jarrett didn't even job!

Honestly, I feel like IYH: DX might have the most random PPV card of all time for a major promotion. It also has the Triple H-Sgt. Slaughter Boot Camp match and Marc Mero Vs Butterbean. How many people even remember that Butterbean had another PPV appearance before WrestleMania XV? Not to mention Ken Shamrock's one WWF main event.

 

[Valeyard]

Shamrock's become one of my favorites so I wish he'd gotten more time on top. 1999 should've had a final Rock match, man.

On paper, even in 1998, that NWA stable sounds good. Cornette, RNRs, Bart, Holly, Jarrett, Windham, Severn. Like that's a perfectly okay group for DX to fuck around with for while, at least just as a TV feud if nothing else.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Before Kevin Kelly with EVIL's most recent run in NJPW, Idk if commentary teams ever treated talent with such disdain (for non kayfabe heel related purposes) than the way the Attitude era announcers talked about NWA stable. It didn't help that everyone in that stable besides Double J looked old and out of place as heck in the Attitude Era.

Insane thing is Barry Windham was the same age in 1998 that Kenny Omega is now but he wrestled like a GD 50 year old man.

 

[Fall of Epic]

Yeah, I've mentioned it before but it's mostly due to guys taking much better care of their bodies now. Bradshaw was only 30 in 1998 but looked closer to 40.

JBL loathed the Miz and MVP in '06 Smackdown (and he was supposed to be a heel!).

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I really really like JBL's heel commentary work in '06-'07. He was ass when he came back in the 2010s but people forget that some people thought he was going to be the next Jesse Ventura!

Yk it's really amazing how many chances WWE gave JBL and Mark Henry before their pushes finally took. Idk if them trying and failing time and time again happens if they aren't a tertiary part of the Attitude Era!