WWE in Winter 2023-24: CM Punk is All Entertainment.

[Brocklock]

I get why people are against Punk and I'll admit that he's a cancer. But, for me, he's that guy that wrestled in my local promotion in La Salle, Illinois in the late 90's/early 00's, and that guy that made me get into Independent Wrestling when I saw his promo against Raven where he compared Raven to his dad. I went to a Raw taping where he took on Regal in Chicago for The IC Title in 2009, and he got treated like a king while coming out wrapped in the Chicago flag, and it gave me goosebumps. I got a little emotional after he beat Cena, and blew a kiss toward Vince McMahon at Money In The Bank 2011. I lost it when he beat Del Rio to win the title at Survivor Series 2011. My interest cratered in WWE after he left in 2014.

I didn't give a shit about AEW during their first two years, but once he showed up, I followed on a weekly basis. I do understand why the fans that followed AEW from the beginning hated him, and while he had a lot of good matches, he clashed with the good vibes and creative direction of the company. The last year and a half of his AEW run has been brutal as a Punk fan, and he deserves all the disdain and hatred he gets. But, I just want the guy to succeed. It's similar to Bret, except Bret wasn't a bully and a sociopath, and was mostly right in his complaints. But, Punk is just my guy just like Bret was. I can't explain it. I hate Triple H, Vince, Flair, Lawler, Hogan and the other sociopaths, but Punk I like.

It's 2023 and I'm 35 years old. I was getting up and going to get some food, but I heard "Cult of Personality" play and jumped around and ran to the tv to see him make his entrance. The last time I reverted to being a child during wrestling was when Rey Mysterio made a surprise entrance in the 2018 Royal Rumble. I wasn't looking at the online rumors and watched the show live, and lost it when Rey showed up and looked as fluid as he did in the early 00's.

Punk is as nuts and toxic as Hogan and Warrior. But, he's a genuine draw for me. I felt connected to this guy for a good portion of my life. I also have terrible social skills, am irritable/moody, awkward, and will speak my mind when necessary. If I was not on my meds, I could see myself clashing with Jack Perry, Kenny Omega, Seth Rollins, Hangman Page, Nick Nemeth, or Matt and Nick Jackson types tbh. He's more of a womanizer and bigger politician than me, but he's one of those wrestlers that I connected with. Samoa Joe, AJ Styles (Well just rooting for him in ring, didn't connect with him as a personality), Low-Ki (Similar to Punk, I'm a Low-Ki apologist. Yeah he's a shit person and hard to work with, but watch those 2002 TNA X Division matches again), Christopher Daniels, and Bryan Danielson were similar.

 

[909]

Haha so that’s what I am saying man. It could go sideways but 909 acting like this is an affront to wrasslin is ludicrous. If this was 25 years ago we’d be losing our minds. Can’t lie as a lapsed fan who still keeps track this is the shit that makes me tune in, not a couple of great workers who seem to draw *** with ease

I didn’t say it was an affront to anything you made all that shit up. I don’t care what makes lapsed fans watch shows cause that’s not my problem. That should never be the goal of a wrestling promoter either but that’s besides the point. Gonna be honest when it comes to a wrestling show all I care about is if I like it or not.

I think it’s also embarrassing to act like the company tried to kill you and go back and act like it never happened. I never criticized a single person who said that they liked this, nor would I. I do find it interesting that people work themselves into pretzels over pro wrestlers, but that is also their problem and not mine.

I already watched this guy return and it was awesome until it wasn’t. It’s not like he never returned before or something so I don’t know what kind of reaction you expect from people who already saw this before.

Everyone is always quick to criticize me for making complaints about WWE but I’ve probably spent more money on them than almost everyone here. I earned the right to say whatever I want. To some it’s like why complain, but to me it’s like when you watch something, don’t you think about what’s gold about it and what’s bad about it, and how it could be better? The other thing I gotta point out is, people can’t really get mad at fans who think it’s stupid when companies bring in old wrestlers, and get mad at them when they think it’s stupid to bring in CM Punk too. The guy is 45 years old and if you buy a ticket to see this guy wrestle, recent history says he might be injured and might not work your show. There are obvious issues here that are bad beyond just the guy being an asshole. WWE has a huge long standing refusal to elevate new people, which was reflected in this main event that was frankly bad. And then there’s another obstacle standing in the way of elevating new people. Look if you actually elevate new people maybe I’d watch the goddamn show. The two world champs were in this spot 8 years ago. I don’t constantly wanna see guys relive their greatest hits. There are a few exceptions and it’s usually guys I watched when I was 12 years old.

People used to tell me when I’d complain that I’d turn the show on every week and watch it anyway, and those same people know that I definitely did not keep doing that. So I’m pretty secure about my complaints and shit and there’s other wrestling shows that cater to me and I’ll keep watching them. I never said anything about other peoples opinions but I notice how quickly someone willing to do it to me. Now I will return the favor. Last thing I’ll say about it, is that WWE is an entertainment company and their job is to give you that one moment that you remember from the show more than everything else. They put on shows that suck and they do it on purpose because they can because as long as that one thing hits, that’s all that matters to them. They’ve cultivated the fan base to accept this by putting on bad shows for ten years. So anything you get that doesn’t suck ass, you’re happy with it. The reason there are lapsed fans is because they’ve fucked up constantly and put on shit shows that made people lapse in the first place and stop watching them. So it’s easy for someone to come in after not watching ten years of shit and tell someone they’re wrong for complaining. Congratulations for pushing the skip button for years.

There’s no reason to get into what AEW does cause it doesn’t matter, sometimes it’s good and sometimes it’s not but I guess that’s the point. Like I alluded to above, I’m not gonna suck their dick for entertaining me. When these guys cajole me into watching a WWE PPV and it doesn’t happen often, there’s about 20 good minutes during Gunther’s match, sometimes there’s five good minutes at the end and the rest is a steaming pile of shit. I genuinely cannot watch a product that’s this stale. The lack of character movement in this company is astounding. I like to utilize my time on something that balances out more evenly. Fuckin compare the two runs Cody had, and that’s all you need to know. Whenever anyone in any company is on top this long, I’m gonna have complaints.

 

[909]

.Can’t lie as a lapsed fan who still keeps track this is the shit that makes me tune in, not a couple of great workers who seem to draw *** with ease

To this point it astounds me that lapsed fans and casuals actually think this is what wrestling fans who watch every week care about. If that was what people wanted you don’t even need to watch the shows and should just look the show up afterward and skip everything but the matches.

I wanna see new characters who haven’t been on top come up with some shit other people ain’t saying, and shit they ain’t been doing. And then I wanna see them crack skulls. I wanna see old guys in the lower card do shit they haven’t done, to try something new even if it fails. I want to see PPV title matches that don’t all end the same. I wanna see top guys who can talk, who can create angles by themselves and see them all the way through. I want to see different kinds of matches and for workers to try to invent new things. And yeah I wanna see great wrestling, not just good wrestling, almost everyone is a good worker so I am not watching just to see good anymore. I like to see wrestlers execute the basics properly, I like to see them bleed because I’m a sadist, and I like to see people talk like me and use bad words sometimes.

I can tell you what I do not want to see. I do not want to see someone on top in one company go on top in the other by running with the exact same character that was already feeling stale and wearing on me. I do not want to see titles held hostage by the same guys for literally years. This goes for MJF too. I do not really want to read about some guy crying because someone said something in a promo and hurt his soft boy feelings.

I keep seeing old guys and wrestlers I don’t like, like Orton, they come in and take spots that I’m waiting to see other people in. I’m getting too old for this shit.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

For all of the talk about how some of you don’t care about CM Punk, you sure are posting a lot about it. Secondly, in eight hours, this thread has three pages. When is the last time that has happened for anything WWE related that wasn’t Rumble or WrestleMania? I don’t even think the Vince scandals got this much chatter going.


As someone who I assume Punk hates would say, controversy creates cash (or at least, interest).

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Punk's the last old school wrestler, carny to the bone, getting that paper. We wax nostalgic about this stuff and laugh about these kinds of stories from thirty years ago. It's still pro wrestling sometimes and I'm loving it.

 

[strummer]

Meltzer saying the Seth stuff is an angle all the way. Seems to think Drew leaving is not. Apparently he was very pissed.

 

[Hawk 34]

More likely because he has spent the last few months negotiating a big deal contract and the two sides been hot and cold about it and here comes this wildly cancerous asshole getting what is assuredly a fat deal and he’s still standing with his sword in his hand.

He might genuinely dislike Punk and that’s a big part of it but don’t let anyone tell you it’s only because of that, he wants his god damn money.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Drew’s almost done anyway and had his foot halfway in the door to AEW before this.

I imagine WWE just pays him to sit at home for the rest of his contract rather than work through his emotions. Unlike some other companies.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1728631658054836491

Similar energy to what I imagine me and @BruiserBrody taking a photo IRL would be like.

 

[Hawk 34]

No one was ready to tell Punk about his stupid haircut last night, so clearly eggshells still laid out in the back.

 

[Broward83]

Punk looks like he's Joe Manganiello after spending more time at a DnD table instead of the gym.

 

[Zetterberg is God]

Apologies for calling people out. Definitely some justified criticism of Punk but I’d like to think the new regime wouldn’t bring him in without consulting the talent. They’re already planting seeds with a guy who called him out publicly which says it all to me.

 

[Valeyard]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1728631658054836491

Similar energy to what I imagine me and @BruiserBrody taking a photo IRL would be like.

This just makes it worse and is gonna be a great meme by April.

I'm not sure I understand a lot of the logic being attempted. The abusive ex mentality is fascinating.

If it isn't about good matches, what good is Punk in any sense? That's all he offers when it comes down to it. If it's fine for Punk to be back, Orton being back is cool too as we're bustin' the olds out, right? What does this rerun of a return do that Edge's AEW debut didn't do better out of the gate, if we're not taking the political end of Punk's return into account? I was a HUGE Punk guy, but this doesn't hit right in any way now. It makes Punk look terrible, and exposed how shitty the top guys are. Has nothing to do with what would've popped me 25 years ago because I'm not 13 and wrestling isn't a religion anymore. The last return that was truly amazing was Punk's last one, which happened very recently, and there is absolutely a sense of betrayal for him negating the way that felt. A bloody brawl that has been built up as a blowoff to a feud based on hatred, a tale as old as the business itself, would've always been more compelling than a return, but especially this one.

All WWE has had going for it since the pandemic has been the women's division and Roman, and the latter is ice cold and tedious now. The only thing Punk offers is the doomsday clock and, frankly, how it will hurry the departure of other talent to other places.

Also "if you don't care why are you talking about it?" is never good logic.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

If it isn't about good matches, what good is Punk in any sense?

It's the same reason why WWE has got in bed with Logan Paul. It gets people talking on social media, riles people up. It's kind of funny but also kind of sad how someone who prided himself on being the Best in the World (and still probably legitimately does think he's one of the best wrestlers) has turned himself into a sideshow attraction. That's wrestling for you. No matter how serious you are about it, eventually you're just another old elephant at the carnival.

 

[Valeyard]

Logan Paul has the crossover appeal, though. People either are fans of his or hatewatch to see him get crippled. Punk's an old guy who hasn't close the the mainstream level of recognition, which is honestly more about being a top guy when the business was at its mainstream lowest. Punk in no way sees himself as less than the biggest star in the company and when HHH or whoever goes back on the promises to treat him that way, and he ends up floating tepidly like Cody, it'll be awesome. If he's treated like a sideshow, it'll be the best for everyone because he'll work hard not to be until he has a hissyfit.

Paul's presence is also just really funny when put with Punk's, as well. That's actually the one program that could be amazing. But it's funny how people, WWE fans, despise Paul on a personal level but are much more willing to forgive Punk.

 

[snuffbox]

ESPN, for example, has run headlines and described Punk as one of the biggest stars, with demonstrable mainstream appeal, over the past many, many years. Ok, so you don't like this particular wrestler but that doesn't mean facts change. Yeesh.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

'00s/'10s WWE is not the Attitude Era but still a lot more people watched than watch the modern product and there are people who tune back in for Punk.

I thought CM Punk Vs Logan Paul is the perfect feud for him at this stage too. That does get the algorithm buzzing big time and it doesn't effect any everyday members of the roster.

 

[Valeyard]

ESPN, for example, has run headlines and described Punk as one of the biggest stars, with demonstrable mainstream appeal, over the past many, many years. Ok, so you don't like this particular wrestler but that doesn't mean facts change. Yeesh.

Punk has come up in real life among non-fans precious little since the UFC, and when it has it's been in relation to podcast appearances. People know the name but don't give him as much thought as everyone assumes he gets. Dude's huge, don't get me wrong, but he's still not in the same league as the household names, and "mainstream appeal" doesn't really means translates or resonates. But it really could and frankly should because he's an asshole but entertaining.

And of course people will tune back in for Punk. To think otherwise is insane. But it's not like the appeal is ever going to be about the positives he brings. Those will be welcome, of course, but no one is going to watch for good work or anything, they're watching for the doom. Unless they've been under rocks or are Punk truthers/anti AEW, of course.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I think CM Punk's first match of this WWE return might be the most important and certainly be the most scrutinized match of his career. One legitimately great match on a Rumble or WrestleMania will silence a lot of the critics and a poorly received one could be catastrophic.

 

[Brocklock]

Were any of his high profile AEW matches poorly received? I've seen people knock the Hangman, Mox, and MJF matches, but I thought those were all really good imo. Then there are the reddit bros that are saying Punk never had a single good match in his career, and are even trashing matches like the Kingston one. I think he is more hated than Hitler on r/squaredcircle.

I think if he can stay healthy (And that's a huge if.), he can more than deliver in the ring. From what I saw of that second AEW run (The Joe, Starks, and Kojima matches), he could still have very good matches.

 

[Valeyard]

The second run is weirder because he was exclusively working with people he was cool with at the time. The first one is fucking great and anyone who says otherwise is wrong. The MJF stuff was the weakest but that's just because the feud went too long and diminished everything.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I think he is more hated than Hitler on r/squaredcircle.

Yeah and Seth Rollins is the type of opponent for Punk that will aggravate them even further but thankfully, Reddit bros really aren't the main voices of wrestling fandom.

I thought Punk did remarkably well in AEW considering his seven plus year layoff. He probably would have avoided the frequent injuries if he hadn't gone so hard. I can't imagine Triple H is gonna let him have random 10-15 minute TVmatches with mic-card dudes like Tony Khan did.

 

[Valeyard]

The inevitable promo wars with Miz are gonna be something

 

[Brocklock]

I didn't check last night, but it did seem that Reddit turned on Seth as well. Whatever PLE it was when Seth faced Nakamura in the last man standing match, they were rightfully shitting on Seth for his wonky selling and not selling the back after he won. Lots of comments about how he's a poor worker. I do think his gimmick is stale as hell this point. Whenever I hear his laugh and the stupid facial expression, I want to watch something else. I think it's been close to four years since he's been doing the drip god gimmick.

 

[Valeyard]

I like Seth a lot but I don't want to watch him in WWE anymore. He's the epitome of someone who needs a change of scene. Don't care where.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I thought Seth Rollins has been one of the least popular guys amongst IWC nerds for at least four years. Maybe longer. When did Bret ream his ass out about nearly crippling Sting?

I feel like him screaming like a little girl and freaking out about The Fiend was a turning point for me and I've never really been able to get into him 100% as a worker since. I get why wrestling fans like him but he also has permanent mild "Go away" heat from me personally.

 

[Brocklock]

I thought he got some of the IWC back with the character change. The theme song and conducting the crowd seemed to work for him for a while. He seemed really over at points, but this World Title run has ruined it. Like it usually does when Seth gets a title run. He's perfect in tag teams or in the upper midcard, but I don't buy him as a top guy.

The Seth as Triple H run in 2015 killed him for me. Then the Seth as 1996 babyface Shawn Michaels run in 2019 killed him further. He's definitely a talented and athletic guy. His cardio is insane, but he's not a smart worker. That said, give me a run in AEW from him. I want to see how stupid and reckless the matches against Ospreay and Omega are. Maybe him and Mox can have a real bloodfest and make up for that terrible TLC 2018 match.

 

[Fall of Epic]

My two cents: I think some people are severely downplaying the benefit of Punk returning to WWE. Despite that, I think it proves that he's a giant hypocrite which will be further accentuated if he works the Saudi shows. I know it's wrestling and bridges are never burned but I really thought he was the one who got away and truly stayed away. I re-listened to that Cabana podcast where he detailed why he left and it's hilarious that he came crawling back. I guess he realizes he's in his mid-40s, isn't the Wrestler he once was and wanted to secure the bag and get a decent send-off.

Feel free to quote me in a few months when his flame fizzles and he's causing trouble backstage.

Also LOL at the AEW hardcores who are all like "whatever, I never liked him anyway, he didn't do shit for Tony!". Look, I love AEW and want it to succeed but some of the blinders on their fans make it so hard sometimes.

 

[Brocklock]

I'm wondering how his AEW run is going to be remembered in ring wise. The Gripe Bomb and the backstage fights are going to overshadow his ring work of course. I could see a lot of Bret in WCW or Luger in WWF comparisons and that seems nuts imo. Punk had a lot of really good stuff throughout his run. The amount of weird little one off tv matches that were fun is a big plus in his favor. And imo he always delivered in the big matches.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

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