WWE in Winter 2023-24: CM Punk is All Entertainment.

[909]

So. basically, the way I watch wrestling?

Yeah and there's nothing wrong with that but only a very small number of people do that.

 

[BUTT]

With regards to AEW, I’m reminded of a story Meltzer has often told about the summer of ‘87. JCP was doing great business for the initial Wargames matches, and in some markets was beating WWF. But Dave knew once the summer was over, Crockett had no big fresh programs left and WWF had a ton. And Vince pulled way ahead that fall. This analogy isn’t perfect because AEW isn’t beating WWE in any metric, but they did have All In and that’s pretty huge. But WWE has a bunch of fresh feuds with the addition of Punk (and Jade whenever she starts) and what does AEW have but a bunch of retreads? And you can’t build around any young star who isn’t signed long-term because WWE is looking to poach talent and everyone wants to go there. Tony is in a really bad spot and I’m not sure how he can reverse things. Most of whatever momentum AEW has gained over the years has been through a steady stream of acquisitions, from Mox to FTR to Brodie to Sting to Christian to Punk, Bryan, and Cole to Joe to Saraya to Edge. There just aren’t that many stars out there anymore.

 

[909]

I think the biggest thing that they've clearly fucked up is ignoring that the champion isn't a draw. Once you address that problem, you can fix everything else. When people say they wanted an alternative I don't think they wanted a show where the champion had the title for a year and the secondary champion opened literally every TV episode with a title defense for six months. Presenting an alternative product will take care of the issue of not being able to sign someone big every three months. The things that got WWE hot were mostly things that came from within, from existing talent that was already there.

And if you go to the past, nobody would say that WWE beat WCW because they signed X-Pac or Big Show or Chris Jericho. It's because the solution for a stale product is to properly use what you already have.

 

[snuffbox]

I think the big reason WWE came back against WCW is McMahon finally let himself get comeuppance on tv instead of doing whatever he wanted no matter what his paying audience preferred. Now, after so many years of people going back to giving him their money no matter how awful he's been (to be clear, rape and Saudi Arabia are both much worse than CM Punk's abrasive backstage behavior), there's a long-term trajectory that would be tough to shift. If that's even their goal or desire.

 

[NYU]

Punk is gonna start shit with Dom. He's a perfect target. Then Judgment Day push his shit in and they don't get punished.

I hope they implied or outright promised a Wrestlemania main event that they decide in January to bail on.

Yikes. Are you one of the Elite posting under an alias? Your absolute loathing towards him through these last five pages has been remarkable.

 

[NYU]

I think the biggest thing that they've clearly fucked up is ignoring that the champion isn't a draw. Once you address that problem, you can fix everything else. When people say they wanted an alternative I don't think they wanted a show where the champion had the title for a year and the secondary champion opened literally every TV episode with a title defense for six months. Presenting an alternative product will take care of the issue of not being able to sign someone big every three months. The things that got WWE hot were mostly things that came from within, from existing talent that was already there.

And if you go to the past, nobody would say that WWE beat WCW because they signed X-Pac or Big Show or Chris Jericho. It's because the solution for a stale product is to properly use what you already have.

This seems a bit like revisionist history. It wasn’t exactly the turning point but Jericho jumping to the WWF is widely considered to be a key moment in the Monday Night Wars. The Radicals jumping to the WWF was also thought to be one of the final nails in the coffin of WCW. Yes, them making stars out of Stone Cold, The Rock, The Undertaker, etc was maybe the MAIN factor in them defeating WCW but getting guys to jump over certainly played a big part too.

 

[Valeyard]

Yikes. Are you one of the Elite posting under an alias? Your absolute loathing towards him through these last five pages has been remarkable.

That is a joke post. Your fellatio over the last five pages has been remarkable. Stop coping. I'm a little surprised that a post with the phrase "push his shit in" is taken seriously as to believe such a statement to be taken seriously is the kind of thing people who drown looking up at falling rain would do.

Punk coming in is a hilarious disaster. He has nothing to offer that is worth the trouble, one of the best of all time who is a total piece of shit. There is no one who will come out of this well, and that is highly amusing, as well as the only reason people at the core give a shit. It's a doomsday clock that is going to have great matches and popped ratings at the expense of a legacy. Again.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I assume Vale let out a Wilhelm Scream when he was confused as a member of the Elite.

 

[Valeyard]

I was more impressed Larry has an account here.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I feel like Cornette would be a better bad comparison to the Punk hatred in this thread cause The Elite are less popular at CXF than him maybe. Except I think Cornette likes CM Punk since he tried to whip The Elite’s asses. Idk wrestling fan discourse is dumb.

 

[Valeyard]

Punk making the Elite be in the right on any issue is the worst crime since OJ.

 

[snuffbox]

Didn't a different poster use that "I was joking" schtick back in the day?

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

By a different poster, you mean almost the entire board?

 

[Valeyard]

Missing the obvious is a better shtick. I just amuse myself. That post is like 2/3 an old KOAB one anyway, I think.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Missing the obvious is a better shtick.

It ain’t much but it’s honest work.

 

[geniusMoment]

Even Punk threads become hostile.

Two things follow around Punk: drama and an unlimited amount of eager poon.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

What bothers me the most is people using the term “poon” in 2023.

 

[cobainwasmurdered]

I know Vale's jokes can go over people's heads sometimes but come on lol. "push his shit in" was a dead give away even to me.

Vale posts just as much about the issues he has with AEW too, it isn't like this is some blind pile on against Punk. AFAIK all of us have been Punk fans at one time or another. I literally bought tickets to an AEW show recently partly in hopes that he'd be there but then he fucked that up.

 

[strummer]

Seth cut a promo on Punk at the WWE house show tonight

 

[claydude14]

I like many others renewed my Peacock subscription for $1.99 a month for the next year by using a different email than last Black Friday. I was paying 39.99/an event on WWE.com during college and not having bills to pay lol. I can always tune into a PLE and the video packages will show me the 5 hours of main roster shit a week I missed. AEW ain’t perfect but that’s where I’ve been invested so that’s what I will watch weekly until given a better reason.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1728971491566616829

 

[909]

One thing I will point out in my defense is that I’m an extroverted person and I don’t understand people who take offense to something, let it build up as much as they can, and eventually explode over something that shouldn’t even have been a problem in the first place. I’m not anti-social so I do not identify with Punk at all in that way. Perhaps that kind of context explains why I think his blowups are so ridiculous.

I think I’ve paid to see Punk twice only for his bullshit to fuck that up. Fool me once and all that shit. I don’t like the Young Bucks but I don’t think that means you can tell someone to come see you and throw a chair at their head when they get there. I don’t think you can be a good teammate when you go on social media to shit on someone after they put you over either. And I’m not referring to the Elite and if everyone was paying attention they know who I mean. When he did that to Mox they should have fired him on the spot but no just keep all that bullshit going for months. No I do not think guy is capable of behaving because he’s like a child.

This seems a bit like revisionist history. It wasn’t exactly the turning point but Jericho jumping to the WWF is widely considered to be a key moment in the Monday Night Wars. The Radicals jumping to the WWF was also thought to be one of the final nails in the coffin of WCW. Yes, them making stars out of Stone Cold, The Rock, The Undertaker, etc was maybe the MAIN factor in them defeating WCW but getting guys to jump over certainly played a big part too.

Yes and no. If those guys never showed up, once the Rock and Trips and Mick and Stone Cold got over, the WWF was going to win anyway no matter what. WCW’s product was absolutely dead by the time Jericho showed up. The things that were set in motion that would get WCW kicked off Turner had already been moving along. Also, none of those guys won world titles before WCW kicked it, top guys should always get the credit for sinking competitors.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Yes and no. If those guys never showed up, once the Rock and Trips and Mick and Stone Cold got over, the WWF was going to win anyway no matter what. WCW’s product was absolutely dead by the time Jericho showed up. The things that were set in motion that would get WCW kicked off Turner had already been moving along. Also, none of those guys won world titles before WCW kicked it, top guys should always get the credit for sinking ccompetitors.

The WWF was going to win the moment they went into 1999 with all of the ratings and live gates, true. The top talent signified that.

HOWEVER, this revisionism that Jericho and the Radicals jumping ship didn't matter much is ridiculous, as it soured the core WCW audience to the point where many switched off and just never returned. The WWF had an audience of casuals, lifelong fans, and hardcore smarks. WCW had rasslin' fans, the kind that Corny used to talk about when he said "wrestling fans watch wrestling to see wrestlers wrestle," and when five of the company's best wrestlers left for the competition within a few months of each other? It signified that things weren't going to get better, and they tuned out.

The Radicals debuted on Raw on 1/31/00, and WCW only saw their Nitro ratings crack a 3.0 10x from then onward. Before that, Nitro ratings hovered in the mid 3's to the mid 4's for the majority of 1997-1999 (with dips into the high 2's starting in 1999). People may not have been tuning into Nitro en masse to see Benoit and Malenko, but enough of them left after they signed to the WWF and never returned to point to that moment as the last major turning point. Especially since Raw's numbers rose to the high 5's/mid 6's on average throughout 2000, where Jericho and Eddie and Benoit were being used often and in much higher profile programs than they were in WCW.

Jericho and the Radicals leaving didn't kill WCW, but it clearly signified that WCW was entering hospice care.

 

[Mickey Massuco]

I will say as someone who doesn’t follow the product at all, I’ve noticed lots of mentions of punk on social media from non-wrestling accounts.

 

[Valeyard]

The Radicalz can't be overstated. That was it. Straight up signed away WCW's soul. Benoit was literally their champion when he walked out.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

WCW was already a distant 2 in January '00 but the Radicalz departure knocked them back to '93 levels of popularity. Besides the first week or two of the Russo/Bishoff run (Hey SID! GOT ANY SCISSORS!? (mild confused murmuring from the crowd) GOT ANY SCISSORS, SID!?), they didn't draw any major interest from casual fans and it was just the ride or die fans from then on. And even a lot of the ride or dies stopped watching or switched to WWF.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Regardless, Punk jumping back to WWE can't really be equated with the back/forth of the MNW because none of those guys were released from their contracts for being massive shit-stirrers with both other talent and the office. In another timeline where HBK jumps after Vince fires him over his attitude and problems? Sure. But not here on Earth Prime.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Radicalz were also in their early 30s and at or near the prime of their career (with the exception of Dean Malenko, who was 40) not a 45 year old gimpy gorilla with behavioral issues (not to mention some career ending injuries *and* not that far removed from a seven year layoff).

Punk returning to WWE is a lot closer to Edge going to AEW than the Radicalz jumping to WCW. Even then, Edge is widely acknowledged to be a great dude. With one obvious exception, I can't think of a lot of locker room drama he was involved in. And even with that obvious exception, they were able to work together.

 

[Valeyard]

 

[geniusMoment]

This is the first time I've had anticipation for Raw in probably a decade.