WWF: Hulkamania era (1984-`1992)

[Valeyard]

I'm disappointed in myself for not considering how logical a cage match is for that feud.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I was confused what Saba Simba was doing there, and it turns out Atlas did a filler spot after his WWF run ended at the Rumble

 

[snuffbox]

Kamala, why do you think a C show with a cage match and multiple hall of famers is such a bad card?

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Look at this post on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/share/p/s52TX5m9i22MU6RR/?mibextid=dD9HTC

 

[BruiserBrody]

You can really appreciate how business was sinking when you look at the December MSG where Hogan vs Flair 2 only drew 11K following all the Survivor Series and This Tuesday in Texas angles.
Both out drew Flair/Piper from Oct.

WWF @ New York City, NY – Madison Square Garden – October 28, 1991 (9,000)
Televised on the MSG Network – included Gorilla Monsoon, Bobby Heenan, & Lord Alfred Hayes on commentary, with Heenan leaving the commentary team for the Ric Flair vs. Roddy Piper match; featured Sean Mooney conducting a backstage interview with Ric Flair and Bobby Heenan about Flair’s win over Roddy Piper earlier in the show, with the two then challenging WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan; included Howard Finkel announcing Flair would face Hogan and WWF IC Champion Bret Hart would face the Mountie at the following month’s show:
Prime Time Wrestling – 11/18/91: Kerry Von Erich pinned Big Bully Busick with the Tornado Punch at 7:47
Prime Time Wrestling – 11/11/91: Davey Boy Smith fought IRS to a 20-minute time-limit draw at 20:05; Smith did not have theme music during his entrance; late in the bout, IRS and Smith took turns choking each other with one of the tag ropes, in plain view of referee Danny Davis, and IRS hit a low blow; the match ended as Smith had IRS covered with an inside cradle
Prime Time Wrestling – 12/9/91: The Mountie (w/ Jimmy Hart) pinned Jim Neidhart at 11:19 by using the tights for leverage after Neidhart missed a running kneelift into the corner
Ric Flair (w/ Bobby Heenan) pinned Roddy Piper at 11:59 by sliding in the ring and putting his feet on the ropes for leverage after punching Piper in the face; after the match, Piper hit the referee with a steel chair before repeatedly hitting Flair with the chair – knocking him to the floor; Flair came out in possession of the “real world’s title” (Flair’s MSG return after a 15-year absence) (Piper’s first pinfall loss at MSG) (Nature Boy Ric Flair: The Definitive Collection)
The Big Bossman pinned Col. Mustafa with a standing sidewalk slam at 4:52 following a gutwrench suplex; prior to the bout, IRS came ringside and demanded the match be stopped, claiming Bossman was a tax cheat; the distraction allowed Mustafa to attack Bossman from behind
WWF IC Champion Bret Hart pinned the Berzerker with a crucifix at 10:17
Prime Time Wrestling – 11/18/91: Tito Santana pinned Hercules with the flying forearm at 9:11
WWF Tag Team Champions the Legion of Doom defeated the Natural Disasters (w/ Jimmy Hart) via disqualification at 8:02 when Typhoon threw the referee to the floor; after the bout, Road Warrior Hawk hit the clothesline off the top, made the save for Road Warrior Animal, and cleared the opponents from the ring

WWF @ New York City, NY – Madison Square Garden – November 30, 1991 (15,000)
Televised on the MSG Network – featured Vince McMahon, Bobby Heenan, & Lord Alfred Hayes on commentary:
Prime Time Wrestling – 12/30/91: Tito Santana pinned Kato with the flying forearm at 10:04
Kerry Von Erich defeated the Berzerker via count-out at 2:00 after ramming Berzerker’s head into the ring steps and sliding back into the ring
Prime Time Wrestling – 1/6/92: Virgil pinned Skinner with a sunset flip at 6:07
Hulk Hogan defeated Ric Flair via reverse decision at 9:25; Flair originally won the match via pinfall after hitting Hogan with a pair of brass knuckles, handed to him by Mr. Perfect; Perfect appeared ringside late in the contest; after the initial decision, Dave Hebner came out, caught Flair with the weapon, and the call was changed; Hogan then cleared Flair and Perfect from ringside as the decision was changed; moments later, Hogan brought a young fan into the ring and posed with him (Greatest Wrestling Stars of the 90s)
Prime Time Wrestling – 12/23/91: Jim Duggan pinned the Barbarian with the running clothesline at 7:51; after the match, the Barbarian knocked Duggan to the floor, with Duggan then attacking Barbarian with his 2×4 and sending him to the floor
WWF IC Champion Bret Hart pinned the Mountie at 12:58 with an elbow drop off the middle turnbuckle; prior to the bout, Hart refused to get in the ring until the referee took the Mountie’s shock stick away, with the Big Bossman then running out, attacking the Mountie, and taking the weapon backstage
IRS pinned the Big Bossman at 13:46 after hitting him over the back with his briefcase as the referee was distracted by the Mountie at ringside; late in the bout, the Mountie came ringside and attacked Bossman on the floor behind the referee’s back; after the contest, the Bossman ran backstage in search of the Mountie
Prime Time Wrestling – 1/6/92: The Nasty Boys defeated Shawn Michaels & Marty Jannetty when Jerry Saggs pinned Jannetty with a small package at 16:20; Brian Knobbs initially reversed Jannetty’s move behind the referee’s back, with Jannetty then reversing it back; without noticing, Michaels accidentally put Saggs back on top; after the contest, Michaels apologized to Jannetty before Jannetty left the ring

WWF @ New York City, NY – Madison Square Garden – December 29, 1991 (matinee) (11,000)
Televised on the MSG Network 12/31/91 – featured Gorilla Monsoon & Bobby Heenan on commentary; included an in-ring promo by Col. Mustafa & Gen. Adnan in which they insulted Sgt. Slaughter:
Prime Time Wrestling – 2/3/92: Davey Boy Smith pinned the Berzerker with a small package at 5:05
Prime Time Wrestling – 2/3/92: Sgt. Slaughter defeated Gen. Adnan & Col. Mustafa in a handicap flag match at 3:27 by pinning Mustafa with a clothesline; after the bout, Slaughter led the crowd in saying the Pledge of Alliegence
Prime Time Wrestling – 1/20/92: Hercules pinned Greg Valentine by lifting his shoulder out of a back suplex into a bridge at 7:44
Prime Time Wrestling – 1/27/92: The Nasty Boys defeated the Bushwhackers when Knobbs pinned Butch at around 9:45 with a clothesline; after the bout, the Nastys continued to assault their opponents until Sgt. Slaughter made the save
Prime Time Wrestling – 1/27/92: Skinner pinned Jim Powers with the reverse DDT at 6:51
Prime Time Wrestling – 1/20/92: Chris Walker pinned the Brooklyn Brawler with a flying bodypress at 4:02
Virgil defeated Repo Man via disqualification at 9:35 when Repo began choking Virgil with his rope
Prime Time Wrestling – 1/20/92: WWF IC Champion Bret Hart fought Ted Dibiase (w/ Sensational Sherri) to a 20-minute time-limit draw at 19:06 as Hart chased Sherri around ringside and into the ring; late in the bout, as Dibiase had Hart in the Million $ Dream, Sherri ran over and rang the time keeper’s bell which resulted in the match pausing until referee Earl Hebner ordered the match to continue; after the bout, Dibiase attempted to attack Hart with the title belt but was clotheslined to the floor
Hulk Hogan defeated Ric Flair (w/ Mr. Perfect) via count-out at 10:09 after ramming Flair’s head into the ringpost on the floor; after the match, Flair jumped Hogan from behind but Hogan fought him off and sent him to the floor (Hulk Hogan: The Unreleased Archives)

 

[BruiserBrody]

GFA Live is covering the May 89 SNME. Hogan's opening promo is about being "Judge Hogan, the judge, jury and executioner of the Big Bossman!"

Peter Winson "A judge? Was he a late Reagan appointee?"

I popped.

I've ranted about this SNME before. Jim Neidhart of all people is the guy the announcers declare Savage has to beat to earn a rematch with Hogan.

Then Neidhart cuts a promo on how he hated Savage's treatment of Miss Elizabeth. YOU HELPED GANG BEAT Macho Man and laughed when your crony shoved Liz to the mat. ON THIS SHOW.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744728128151535737

Liz trying to react to Hogan's cocaine promo is good fun.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Look at this post on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/share/p/Qgf1TTL1R2wydR8L/?mibextid=dD9HTC

 

[Valeyard]

Because stand back that's why.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1744738582580080685

The Brody clan going to Green Bay's finest eatery

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1745437907882828089

I want to see Bret Hart in LOD paint.

Duggan/Sarge vs Nasties could be a lot of fun if they wanted to put a little effort in.

 

[BruiserBrody]

There's a new wrinkle to the WrestleMania III attendance drama!

And it's from a decently authoritative source!

babyfacevheel.substack.com

Two-and-a-half years later, I came to find out that “everyone” included a WWE press release six days out, with WWE never following it up by putting out another release to announce “93,173.” In writing that blog post, I also came to realize that if you left out the Silverdome’s “club” and “suite” levels, the 78,500 figure suddenly made sense. The idea that the official paperwork could be missing those was rooting in reality — building settlements don’t always include suites — would explain everything.

We also know, thanks to a Detroit Free Press article that ran two days before the show, that there were at least 3,130 people in the building who were doing their jobs at the show: 2,500 concession stand workers plus 350 stadium personnel plus 100 reporters in the press box plus in excess of 180 WWF personnel based on the number of hotel rooms secured by the company. I had also learned, from both then-WWE photographer Tom Buchanan and a fan in the since-hidden Deadspin comments, that, to avoid unrest among fans who showed up without tickets thinking they could buy them at the door, WWE let in a large amount of fans for free as standing room only. Suddenly, the idea that there were well over 90,000 human beings in the building was starting to make some sense, as well. (And for good measure, I later figured out that pay-per-view broadcast of the show was bought by 30% more homes than previously believed.)

That takes us to the latest find. Cory Gibson, the ever-dogged wrestling historian and archivist, recently went on a research trip to grab scans of WWF-centric articles in the trade publication Amusement Business that weren’t in news databases. The abstracts were, which made them easy to find, but not the actual articles. Those microfilm finds include Amusement Business’s coverage of, yes, WrestleMania III:

World Wrestling Federation's Wrestlemania III, with Hulk Hogan defeating Andre The Giant in the title bout, drew 93,173 persons to the Silverdome on March 29, making it the world's largest indoor stadium event.
The previous indoor crowd record was held by the Rolling Stones, who drew 87,500 in 1981 to their Louisiana Superdome performance in New Orleans.
The Wrestlemania III crowd also broke the building's attendance record, set in 1982 by Super Bowl XVI which drew 82,000- 83,000, according to Silverdome Director Mike Abington. "Our next largest crowd will be Sept. 19. when Pope John Paul II will be here," he said.

Skipping ahead past some whoppers from WWE about PPV buys and closed-circuit TV ticket sales, we hear from the Silverdome’s Mike Abington again:

Abington said the attendance figure of 93,173 "included everyone in the building" Tickets sold totaled 88,100, with tickets priced at $100, $30, $20, $15 and $9.

 

[JHawk]

Meltzer always said he got the 78,000 figure directly from the local promoter but considering the held more than that for football and they utilized the entire field area and had no elaborate set, there was literally no way the 78.000 figure made sense. 88,100 paid makes total sense

 

[Valeyard]

Why do people care still, though? At this point both the real and kayfabe number have been broken by real attendances.

I want to know whether the exact number was for the NWA show at the Silverdome afterwards, though. A couple hundred, or just angry ring crew?

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1746688700249944206

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1746745598303195164

 

[Valeyard]

Perfect

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

It’d be the January 1992 issue not the January 1991 issue. Not that second year Undertaker being on the cover is that much better than Mr. Perfect.

 

[Valeyard]

This can technically be a crosspost to the New Generation thread but what are considered Bret's best Coliseum Video singles matches? The ladder match with Shawn and the Flair title change, for sure, but I'm having a hard time thinking of even a handful. He dogged it harder than pretty much anyone.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Idk how many hidden singles Bret gems there are. He was a pretty conservative worker and wouldn’t go all out for non TV/PPV matches like HBK and Flair occasionally did.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I questioned recently why Indy was chosen for Hogan/Andre II instead of potentially a big stadium type super show or such.... well the answer came in last week's "Wrestling History Grenade" pod covering the card. Dick Ebersol picked the venue as it was one of his 2 favorite arenas for shooting wrestling events.
--
I still want a magic video to exist that shows 6 year old Brody's reaction to watching this live.
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Feels a little awkward to have the Mega Powers in match 1 and 2 back to back but neither bother to help the other while both faced 3 on 1 ringside situations. (Well Liz is there for Savage, but you know....)

IIRC the last SNME before WM 4 is Dibiase/Savage Hogan/Race. I can't recall if the Mega Powers do anything in the Dibiase match to set up the Mania angles with the Mega Bucks.

--
Listening to this and the Rumble 88 era TV highlights and promos is making me yearn for March's Retro Mania thread.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Market Square Arena did have an awesome look, especially for the style of TV wrestling they were going for with SNME. I'm surprised WWF didn't go back there for a PPV until In Your House: Buried Alive. WWF's PPV schedule was strictly "East Coast or Chicago" until the 12 PPV a year era, outside of WrestleMania 2 and VII and a few dips into the Rust Belt.

Minneapolis, Carolinas, and Bay Area probably didn't get a PPV until deep into the Attitude Era. Heck, I feel like if I saw a list of biggest cities that have never hosted a WWE PPV, I'd be surprised at a few of them at the top. I think there are still some weird lingering subtle territorial biases. If WWE had a PPV in Seattle, it wasn't until like the late '00s/early 2010s.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Meltz said on his pods/WON for years that the WWF blamed SEATTLE for WM 19 underperforming (560K buys) and not the fact that they put all the hype into the 50 something Vince wrestling the almost 50 Hogan as the main attraction.

How the venue effected the PPV buys.... well....

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Oh duh. I forgot XIX but they still waited until 2003 to run a top 20 most populous city.

I also forgot they ran Houston for Royal Rumble '89. I imagine Vince just broke down to Bruce's pestering "Hey Vince. Let's have a PPV near my house!"

 

[BruiserBrody]

Oh duh. I forgot XIX but they still waited until 2003 to run a top 20 most populous city.

I also forgot they ran Houston for Royal Rumble '89. I imagine Vince just broke down to Bruce's pestering "Hey Vince. Let's have a PPV near my house!"

And Rumble 88 was in Canada because it was supposed to be a house show until Vince decided messing with JCP's PPV would be fun.

Wouldn't shock me if they chose Houston over something petty like Boesch coming out of retirement to plug JCP locally after he and the WWF had a falling out and they gave him the big retirement show.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Well, I counted Hamilton and Toronto as "East Coast" (even though they're technically kind of more Midwest). The Maple Leaf territory is kind of WWF adjacent due to the Tunney connection. Although looking at History of WWE, Maple Leaf Gardens ran JCP matches up through mid '84 so what do I know?

 

[BruiserBrody]

*unzips pants*

WWF @ Guelph, Ontario – Memorial Gardens – February 7, 1988 (matinee)
Randy Savage & Ricky Steamboat defeated Bret Hart & Jim Neidhart when Savage pinned Bret

And another candidate for worst card of all time:

WWF @ Cobleskill, NY – Bouck Hall Gym – February 7, 1988
Little Coco & Pepe Gomez defeated Lord Littlebrook & Little Tokyo
David Sammartino vs. Barry Horowitz
Outback Jack vs. Iron Mike Sharpe
SD Jones vs. Johnny V
George Steele vs. Ron Bass

 

[Valeyard]

Man if you run the Mega Powers storyline with the Macho Dragons instead, it actually works slightly better just because Steamboat cannot have lost in his eyes. But whatever is that tag match on tape?

That other show has midgets so it isn't worst ever.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

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