WWF Ruthless Aggression (2002- 2008)

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Ep. #434: November 29-December 5, 2004 with TARO (Part 2) - Between The Sheets

Every Monday, Kris Zellner and David Bixenspan go over how a given week in professional wrestling history was covered by the wrestling media, primarily in the "dirt sheet" newsletters. The deepest dive into wrestling history that you can find.

pca.st

Now we got nearly five hours of Bix and Kris Zellner discussing this era.

Tough Enough contestants wearing drag and trying to deduce Hardcore Holly seems like it’d be memorable WrestleCrap but it might have been something everyone blocked out of their memory.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

WISCONSIN MAN

 

[BruiserBrody]

WISCONSIN MAN

I think I covered this for CXF. Fucking Wisconsin and loving conspiracies.

(Next time I see Hornswoggle in Appleton I'll ask him about Steven Avery) Then he'll remember that time I pissed him off at a bar by bending over to talk to him instead of standing up like he's a big boy and he'll kick me in the shins.

 

[Valeyard]

Dwarf tossing arc when

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

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This card only drew 2,000 fans to the Centrum and it being cited ATT as one of the signs that WWE was failing.

I am sure that ‘02 Tazz Vs Reverend D’Von match was riveting though.

 

[Valeyard]

Orton/Holly was probably fun, honestly. Pre-injury Orton > other Orton.

Fuckin' Snow saying this was "good times" is great, though. Wants to get that Maven collab.

 

[Brocklock]

I remember Holly and Orton having some decent young guy vs surly vet matches right after the Brand Split on Smackdown.

Top two matches are good though. Angle/Edge have great chemistry and I remember Jericho getting a really good match out of Hogan on Smackdown. Tajiri and Kidman usually have good matches too.

Some of those matches are nightmare inducing, but it's not like some of the really putrid WWF house show cards of the mid 90's.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Historical note: this was the last WWF show. The next day was the WWE name change.

 

[Valeyard]

That show is totally a second-gear version of Backlash. Which is probably even better than Backlash on the grounds that Austin/Taker was so bad and Jericho was having the in-ring year HHH probably wanted.

 

[Brocklock]

Hall/Bradshaw was horrible as well. And I remember Snow/Maven vs Billy and Chuck being bad too. HHH/Hogan was way too long and drawn out as well. I do think Hogan busted his ass and it was amusing seeing him do a RKO/Diamond Cutter. This motivated version of Hogan vs 2000 HHH might've been really good. 2002 Triple H stunk.

Angle/Edge rocks though and Tajiri/Kidman is a really underrated opener. I liked Eddie and RVD's chemistry in all their matches as well.

 

[BruiserBrody]

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This card only drew 2,000 fans to the Centrum and it being cited ATT as one of the signs that WWE was failing.

I am sure that ‘02 Tazz Vs Reverend D’Von match was riveting though.

Was Al Snow/Maven a thing? Maybe I have the vaguest memory of this being a mentor angle?

===
Albert and the Godfather? Hugh Morris and Mark Henry? I'm not even sure the heel/face alignment. This would be after Godfather returned to form at the Rumble as a face IIRC?

 

[Brocklock]

I think Snow and Maven got a little push as a tag team because season 2 of Tough Enough was starting up. They weren't great, and Snow might of turned on Maven to break up the team, but maybe I'm misremembering.

The Godfather turned heel in 2002 on an episode of Metal. He said the escort service was closed due to a lack of business and blamed the fans for it. I vaguely remember this, but a weirdly detailed youtube video refreshed my memory.

Albert, I think was a face at that point. Didn't turn heel until later in the year when he became A-Train. Henry was a face at that point. And idk about Hugh Morrus.

 

[Valeyard]

Eddie/RVD is awesome and all those matches were a great extension of the RVD/Lynn formula but with someone better than Lynn (said with 100% love for Lynn, of course). Eddie just dismantles him. It's really a shame they never did much after 2002 because a 2004 title TV main event would've been great.

Kidman/Tajiri is really good and shows a lot of the problem with that ppv. Like, a WWF crowd was chanting for Kidman to start the show and was basically snuffed by Austin/Taker (if not Bradshaw/Hall) and never quite came back. Not that Kidman was going to turn the business around, mind you, just that they were HOT for that match and into a guy they were told never to really invest in only to have the main eventers grind the enthusiasm to a halt.

Hall/Bradshaw let me down. I don't HATE it but I hate that it wasn't just a big dude fight instead, a ** on its own merit vs a * with all the nWo-related bullshit. Ever since 1996 I'd wanted a match between the two guys with the sweet fallaway slams and this didn't cut it.

Brock killing Jeff Hardy is excellent despite people at the time shitting on it. Perfect way to build him up with the perfect guy to be sent to the meat grinder. If anything the only problem in hindsight is that he didn't kill Jeff more because Jeff is insane and would've risked his life for no reason anyway.

I think the woman's match was Trish/Jazz so it was probably pretty decent, but honestly Trish didn't really find a groove until the Molly feud so I'd have to check it again to see how I really feel. Definitely isn't as good as anything they'd do again over the next year, I'm sure.

Angle/Edge rules and again it's too bad they never did more after 2002.

Taker/Austin is one of the worst matches of both their careers (and that said isn't even the worst match Taker would have that year, let alone in a 30 day period). Austin dogging it is bullshit but I can accept that as an excuse much more than Taker being absolutely dreadful until August.

Everything Billy and Chuck did was terrible. Everything. Snow and Maven only got the push to promote Tough Enough and it isn't like they had a shot despite being one of only like three active teams.

HHH/Hogan could've been good if HHH had any mobility to him. 1999-2001 HHH makes it an all time carryjob, 2004-07 HHH makes it a perfectly solid sports entertainment smoke and mirrors match. It just goes on FOREVER when neither one has any business going over 15 minutes and it gets so fucky at the end.

 

[Brocklock]

Yeah, for some reason Taker really stepped up his game starting in August. Or maybe it was the triple threat the month before with Rock and Angle. That three match stretch from Backlash til King Of The Ring has to be up there for worst three match run in WWE PPV/PLE history. And the match with Rock from No Way Out is kind of a slog as well.

But, then the triple threat at Vengeance was one of the best WWF/E Triple Threat Matches at that point. The match with Test at Summerslam is surprisingly (Well not for me, the world's biggest Test defender) decent and Taker works hard. The first Brock match is very good and a fun preview of things to come, and then the HIAC with Brock is a classic and one of the best Cell matches ever.

Also, Eddie's title run in 04 should've been like Bret's runs and done a lot of face/face matches as he takes on all comers. The heel side on Smackdown in 2004 was brutally bad, and he should've had big matches with Rey, RVD, or even Taker.

 

[Valeyard]

The Flair match and the Brock matches are great. The Hardy match is one I have never cared for but I get why people do. The triple threat is hard to say for me because triple threats can pad shit for people. Big Show in his shittier moments was in some great ones but I don't know how I feel about them being a good showing, you know? But I haven't seen the Taker/Rock/Angle match since it happened, so I could be talking out my ass.

The Brock match at Unforgiven is great and awesome booking. People complained, and still do, about how he "wasn't feeling it" to lose to Brock but it was 100% the right call and the Cell did more for Brock than any other match. Taker made Brock and I don't care what anyone says.

 

[Brocklock]

I remember it being an early instance of finisher stealing, and it actually feeling unique and adding to the match. I think Rock does a chokeslam, Taker the Angle Slam, and Angle a Rock Bottom. Sounds hokey, but I thought it really made the match stand out at the time. And they kept up a hot pace for around 20 minutes, and was really well laid out for a triple threat. I thought it was much better than Angle/RVD/Austin or Austin/Benoit/Jericho from the year before.

 

[Sex Machine Gun]

Vengeance 2002 has a hell of a main event. I remember popping for that live, especially with the main event scene we had at the time.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1734577954716270593

 

[Valeyard]

I think Vince had never actually seen him until right then and he was like a foot shorter than he thought so he killed it immediately. I seem to remember Vansen getting some minor praise by developmental standards.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

After Transitioning, Former WWE Star Gabbi Tuft Wants Back in the Ring

Tuft spoke to 'TV Insider' about her recovery from open heart surgery, her admiration for fellow trans wrestlers, and her desire to make a return.

www.them.us

I’m going to withhold my commentary so Brody doesn’t accuse me of going too woke.

 

[Valeyard]

I honestly don't care. Are they happy? Cool. Their hair was still terrible

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

At least she got rid of the white person dreads.

Fact that she apparently had open heart surgery in 2020 is probably a bigger impediment to a wrestling comeback than transitioning. Not a lot of dick based matches now that Joey Ryan is (hopefully) out of the business.

 

[Valeyard]

The dreads are my first memory every time. That and Matt Hardy debuting in TNA with dreads which got Tyler Reks trending all night.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Oh lord. Matt Hardy was such a mess in the early 2010s that I forgot he had a dreads phase.

Interestingly, for most of the era discussed ITT, a good portion if not the majority of the IWC thought Matt was pulling ahead in the face of which Hardy was better.

 

[Brocklock]

There was a period where both guys were on top of their game. Around 2006-2009 until Matt turned heel. Both Hardys were among my favorite WWE workers at that point. Matt really reminded me of a discount Bret Hart with that ECW title run. And Jeff was motivated for a while. I legit thought he was gonna beat Orton at the Rumble that one year and go into WM as the champ.

 

[Valeyard]

When Matt and Helms just had matches for no reason for like two months, it was his peak as a worker.

 

[Brocklock]

Matt got compelling Smackdown matches out of Ken Dykstra and 2008 Biker Chuck Palumbo. Also, I think Matt might of had Ken Kennedy's best WWE match. I remember really enjoying their smackdown match in 07.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

When Matt and Helms just had matches for no reason for like two months, it was his peak as a worker.

Helms’ run with the Cruiserweight Title is up there with Londrick’s run with the WWE Tag Team Titles for longest mostly unnoticed title runs cause the Smackdown! secondary titles didn’t even make a lot of the brand exclusive PPVs.


If you weren’t in on Friday nights watching Smackdown every week, you wouldn’t know how good these guys were. Of course, I was a complete anti social dork at 18-19 so I did know!


Also the way the title lineage works the ‘00s Smackdown Tag Titles are the current RAW Tag Team Titles. What the h!?

 

[Valeyard]

Londrick were awesome though. I looked forward to them all the time. That ladder match where Mercury breaks his face is a classic no one really talks about, if only for the fucking Blue Bloods in a ladder match.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

It’s too bad Kid Kash didn’t really work out in WWE. Londrick-MNM-WWE Pitbulls could have been a solid poor man’s Hardys-E&C-Dudleys.