Kamala's Random WCW Bullshit thread

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1684182568671772673

The Juice is loose.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

The "they" in charge was Hogan with creative control and Nash holding the booking pen.

The one guy they managed to elevate (Goldberg) was undermined immediately as Hogan/Nash battled backstage over who was going to pin him first. Hogan appeased himself w/ a few celebrity mega tag matches and then worked w/ Warrior. Nash spent a few months getting to play with his buddy Hall. Once Nash managed to somehow win the backstage battle Hogan announced he was running for President and retired.

Did Nash still have booking power in early '99? I thought he was out of the office by then. Regardless, the money was in Goldberg going back after the belt, and there's so many ways it could have worked out better if the known difficult parties would just sack up and be adults.

Is Hogan beating Goldberg via some bullshit at Starrcade better or worse? Like I can't decide if, say, Nash turning on Goldberg and Hogan winning --causing the finger poke to never happen-- is a better way to kill Goldberg off.

Kinda fucked how the way we got it was better off for all involved, eh?

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Scott Steiner was lucky he got a main event push at all in WCW, even during the death rattle stage considering some of the stuff he said and crap he pulled.

They probably only gave him the big belt due to lack of better options. Only guy that was gonna stand in his way was Flair and he was so thoroughly dejected by the Fall of ‘00, he would have worked in a stable with Atilla the Hun.

Even then, he randomly shit on DDP on live TV during that World Title run and triggered a wild backstage brawl.

Steiner was entertaining as hell but he was also volatile and a huge bully. Who gets that mad about DDP? He is the human equivalent of a golden retriever.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Nash always claims he wasn't booking but he wins WW3 and beats Goldberg and booked the shittiest Starrcade possible. As the saying going "Success has many fathers, failure is an orphan."

Meltz reported all the Hogan/Nash backstage drama that started in summer at least as Nash wanted Hogan to step down as the featured guy and told Nash "What you're saying will cost me a lot of money, brother"

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Nash *was* really over in late ‘98/early ‘99. He is not lying when he says the crowd was split at Starrcade ‘98. I’d say minimum it was 40 Nash/60 Goldberg but maybe 50/50.

Flipping him back and forth from heel to face at a Lex Luger like rate didn’t help the coffin on roller skates that was ‘99 and on WCW. If fans don’t know whether to cheer or boo one of the strongest booked people on the roster, they are going to stop caring.

 

[Valeyard]

I just wish champion Goldberg had the bloodfeud with Bigelow I wanted. Most excited I ever was for Goldberg was when Bigelow showed up to kill him and I think, given the chance, they have some great brawls that help both of them.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

It's not like Bigelow was averse to having wild brawls with unstoppable killing machines, either. He literally just came off a program with a much smaller (but more talented) one!

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Idk if I’d go so far as to say BBB should’ve ended the streak but he could have and maybe should have been the guy that softened Goldberg up and led to him losing the streak.

 

[Valeyard]

That very small window where Bigelow debuted and was the Goldberg hunter is one my favorite Bigelow periods. First time he felt like a big star in years, or at least a big star on that level. I was down for just some good brawls, especially as someone who didn't think Goldberg was any good but who loved Bigelow. I think if given proper the chance Bigelow would've been one of his best opponents. Same goes for Awesome.

Bigelow ending the streak would've been a disaster. By the next year he was on such a steep decline that it wouldn't have benefitted anyone. Frankly the more time that passes, the more I wish Bret had been the one to end the streak. Just ape the WM13 finish and not take any superkicks.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Idk it was possible for me to still get viscerally angry over the Fingerpoke of Doom. It really did no one any good.

Even Hollywood Hogan. It was supposed to establish him as this master mind, tactical genius evil heel and he was a babyface again within three months.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Idk if I’d go so far as to say BBB should’ve ended the streak but he could have and maybe should have been the guy that softened Goldberg up and led to him losing the streak.

Going full Knightfall on Goldberg would've been one hell of a thing to see

 

[Valeyard]

That's the right answer to a lot of Goldberg problems, really. Steiner breaking him? Perfect. Bigelow breaking him for him to lose to Bret or someone different? Perfect. Sid comes in with the Millenium Man shit and first order of business is to cripple Goldberg for a month or so? Perfect.

It actually kind of would make sense for the streak to end because Goldberg was always beating people all the time that he just can't take the physical toll. I mean, sure, Jerry Flynn isn't gonna beat him but the cumulative streak and championship schedule leading into a real main event? I would buy that as a reason for him to lose.

 

[Gert]

Idk it was possible for me to still get viscerally angry over the Fingerpoke of Doom. It really did no one any good.

Even Hollywood Hogan. It was supposed to establish him as this master mind, tactical genius evil heel and he was a babyface again within three months.

I never understand storyline wise why Nash would agree to that anyway. He just won WW3 and ended the streak, why would he need to bend at the knee to Hogan?

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

That's the right answer to a lot of Goldberg problems, really. Steiner breaking him? Perfect. Bigelow breaking him for him to lose to Bret or someone different? Perfect. Sid comes in with the Millenium Man shit and first order of business is to cripple Goldberg for a month or so? Perfect.

It actually kind of would make sense for the streak to end because Goldberg was always beating people all the time that he just can't take the physical toll. I mean, sure, Jerry Flynn isn't gonna beat him but the cumulative streak and championship schedule leading into a real main event? I would buy that as a reason for him to lose.

They teased this with Saturn in the spring. One of the reasons I like those matches so much is that Saturn was doing some fine damage to Goldberg before he'd get beaten, and it was believable in execution.

 

[strummer]

I never understand storyline wise why Nash would agree to that anyway. He just won WW3 and ended the streak, why would he need to bend at the knee to Hogan?

Yeah Nash looked like a dumbass in that storyline. And even dumber when Hogan turned face a few months later. Kayfabe wise he got nothing out of it.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I don’t even remember the dynamics of turning face in Spring of ‘99 then turning back heel in the Summer of ‘99. I don’t think there were specifics.


It’s hard to say he had a bad year when he was World Champion and main evented four PPVs but I feel like he definitely had the worst year for someone that main evented four PPVs that year.

 

[strummer]

Nash was on top and won the title in May but it showed Hogan was above him and could out politic him.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Nash was on top and won the title in Maybut it showed Hogan was above him and could out politic him.

During the NBA Playoffs. Those dates didn’t work for Hogan, brother.

 

[strummer]

Hogan was 46 years old when he was champion that summer. Savage was near 47 when he won it that year.

 

[Valeyard]

At least Savage barely had it. Him losing it to Hogan isn't too bad, I think, both because I'm always a mark for those two together and because I think Hogan is the only guy who wouldn't break the barely mobile Savage.

They probably could've gotten away with turning Hogan right away. Like the get the finger poke, Nash goes down, Nash kicks out, and Hall comes in with the taser. Goldberg saves Hogan, awkwardly, and you at least set something up that sucks less. It's all bad but it's interesting to think of a way to spin that particular moment to at least not mortally wound the company.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

At least Savage barely had it. Him losing it to Hogan isn't too bad, I think, both because I'm always a mark for those two together and because I think Hogan is the only guy who wouldn't break the barely mobile Savage.

Even though he was completely washed and probably didn’t deserve any sort of World Title run, I did feel bad that Macho Man won the World Title then lost it to Hogan the next night twice in 15 months.

The Summer of Suck really broke Macho Man. He goes over the top in reinventing himself and it bombs spectacularly. His reward is jobbing to Hogan again and the least memorable Dennis Rodman match on this hemisphere (that involves a literal outhouse!)

No wonder why he became a recluse.

 

[Valeyard]

He just had nothing left. The makeover came probably too late. I really don't like the Team Madness era, though, because he was so clearly immobile and shouldn't have even been trying to use anything he used to. Like if he'd changed his finish, sacrilege as it is, it would've been better on him. But if he'd just had at least one big win in the gimmick as a face to go out on.

Savage losing to Hogan is just one of things that happens.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

They should’ve just had Macho Man manage SID and have the two of them and Madusa be the ‘99 version of his team with Zeus and Sherri.

Really nothing of value would’ve been lost if Savage retired after he messed up his knee doing that stupid, wildly unnecessary flying axe handle off the cage spot at Halloween Havoc ‘97. It’s sad how immobile he is from ‘98 on. Even Bret couldn’t carry him to a watchable match.

 

[Valeyard]

Commentary or managing the Thrillers. The former has potential to be hilarious, latter would probably be a grievous error but would've helped somewhat. Maybe.

If he doesn't get hurt during the DDP matches, what happens? How long does he stay active? Does he ever see the title again?

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

His dad was active into his late 50s. If he stayed healthy, I totally could have seen Macho doing the same.

 

[strummer]

Savage tore his ACL jumping of the cage at Havoc 97. But didn't he hurt his (other?) knee in Spring 98 in a closing Nitro angle when Bischoff accidentally fell back on his knee?

 

[BruiserBrody]

Hogan was 46 years old when he was champion that summer. Savage was near 47 when he won it that year.

Needed more 50 year old Ric Flair headlining. (Superbrawl 9 w/ Hogan vs Flair was the 3rd biggest buyrate WCW ever drew) Nash vs Goldberg was just behind it.
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The Fingerpoke of Doom was actually good for ratings? | Freakin' Awesome Network Forums

I was just checking Nitro ratings for a 98 Goldberg/Sting match in another thread and noticed that they were doing great in early 99. Ratings for the 8 Nitros before Jan 4 1999: 4.6, 4.0, 4.2,

officialfan.proboards.com

I was just checking Nitro ratings for a 98 Goldberg/Sting match in another thread and noticed that they were doing great in early 99.

Ratings for the 8 Nitros before Jan 4 1999: 4.6, 4.0, 4.2, 4.2, 4.2, 4.5, 4.3, 4.1

Ratings for the 8 Nitros after Jan 4 1999: 5.0, 4.9, 5.0, 4.7, 5.7, 3.9, 4.8, 4.2

I was always under the impression the fingerpoke hurt WCW's business pretty much immediately but the NWO getting back together seemed to actually be a hit with viewers. Superbrawl also had a massive PPV buyrate, even beating Starrcade.

The idea of Goldberg and Flair going for revenge against the once again full powered NWO seemed to have a lot of interest. Obviously they messed it all up by turning Hogan/Nash face, Flair heel and Goldberg never getting his proper revenge but it's kind of crazy to think just how strong they were still doing and with just basic tweaks who knows how longer they could have held out before ratings started plummeting.

People were waiting for Goldberg to go through the NWO and eventually get the title back from the leader Hogan then all of a sudden Hogan is a good guy before we've even gotten the payoff??? And Flair, the guy who cut that impassioned promo the week after the fingerpoke blasting the NWO for spitting in the face of WCW and the world title, he is now a heel too? Live crowds actually played along and seemed happy to cheer Hogan and boo Flair but business wise it was a complete disaster. The fingerpoke gets more attention but it seems that Hogan/Flair double turn was the thing which killed their momentum.

 

[Valeyard]

I feel like the best way to make it work is Goldberg needing allies to do it. Book that shit like Rio Bravo and have him get a younger guy who didn't turn out like he should've, a surly old guy, and a brand new prettyboy in a "It's not who I've got, it's what I've got" battle. Jericho, Piper, and Kidman with Goldberg is money.

 

[BruiserBrody]

His dad was active into his late 50s. If he stayed healthy, I totally could have seen Macho doing the same.

His dad didn't jump off the top rope to the ring and cement 100s of times a year in his 30s.

--
Reading the
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperBrawl_IX

The review mentions a lot of good points:

In 2007, Arnold Furious of 411Mania gave the event a rating of 5.0 [Not So Good], stating, "The undercard was ok but the main events dragged it down and there’s nothing SO amazing on the undercard to go and check it out for. This show got really positive reviews at the time but I think that was entirely down to it not being shit. The tale end of 1998 set the standard of PPV so LOW for WCW that generally people didn’t expect anything when they ordered a WCW show. When they got something they ended up being really happy about it. But if you look at the booking they totally fucked the fans over. They knew Flair was losing and still jobbed out Benoit & Malenko, Rey Jr, DDP and put the US title on Scott Hall. Yeah, Goldberg went over but if he’d have lost then WCW would have had to be completely gaga. Thumbs in the middle for this one but no real recommendation to check it out."

I distinctly remember reading the WON for this event as it was among the first legit paper dirtsheet I ever had in hand thanks to Meltz having a 6 issue discount coupon in the Sporting News. I was still in High School.
IIRC Meltz really took WCW to task for booking the BS finish to the tag title tournament and Nash's antics in his feud with Rey Jr.
Hall and Piper was god awful and a sign that both men were washed. Meltz also made a big deal about Flair turning 50.

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That WCW tag tourney was a double elimination style. We were blessed with 4 matches with Crush and Horace Hogan. Van Hammer teamed with Kaz Hahayshi for reasons(?), Mike Enos teams with Bobby Duncum... was that a thing after Dick Slater left? Duncum was apparently hurt or something as he is replaced in later rounds with Scotty Riggs, who I assume was doing his Mr. Wonderful knock off gimmick? Where's Wayne Bloom when you need him?

WCW World Tag Team Title Tournament, 1999

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WCW loved their convoluted tournaments - I think the 96 Cruiser tourney was made up. IIRC They were plugging Brad Armstrong advancing in the tourney as they aired matches of him losing on TV. Then Otani wins the "finals" in Japan over Beniot, then loses his first defense a month later to Malenko on Worldwide. During that match the announcers apparently said Ohtani beat Brad Armstrong in the finals instead of Beniot.

The Women's title tourney in 96 had 7 girls, with Akira Hokuto working Rd 1 twice, once winning as herself, and once masked to job to Madusa.

Harkens back to Crockett Cup 88 where the Sheepherders somehow had 2 Quarterfinal matches, losing the 2nd one and being ousted.

 

[JHawk]

There was also a four woman CRUISERWEIGHT title tournament that aired exclusively on Main Event with the title literally never being mentioned again in the US