Kamala's Random WCW Bullshit thread

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yearly post about how popular WCW still was in early ‘99 (and even to a lesser extent, for the rest of the year and early ‘00). That Hogan-Flair feud did really really good house show and PPV numbers even if they were starting to get whooped in the ratings by WWF.

People act like the streak ending/Fingerpoke of Doom happened and WCW immediately went into a nosedive that they would never recover from. Truth is a lot more nuanced. WCW had a lot of chances to comeback in ‘99-‘00 and THEY. KEPT. MESSING. IT. UP.

 

[Valeyard]

They never had anything super compelling after Hogan/Sting. Goldberg, yeah, but how often was the streak in actual danger? Two, three times?

Fingerpoke was also opposite Foley's title win, right? Symbolically I 100% see why it's the end.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

They never had anything super compelling after Hogan/Sting.

Excuse me?

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Ahem?

Serious answer…that aside…

WCW actually got pretty good again in Spring of ‘99 (stuff like the above posted angle aside…) but at that point, WWF was so far ahead that WCW panicked and did a bunch of stuff that led to the Summer of Suck.

 

[Valeyard]

But that's the thing. Nothing was engaging. There was no doubt some good stuff in places but it just never seemed like anything was really worth investing in because WCW would fuck it up or get distracted. Spring Stampede is one of the best shows they put on but that's one show. I do think WCW shows from that period age better than the WWF ones, but both have serious problems for different reasons and kind of cancel each other out.

If they just could've accepted the mindset of being a powerful number two promotion instead of being a weaker number one promotion, it would've made such a difference. All they had to do was hang back and regroup instead of the weird versions of panic they fell into.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I won’t put up a strong argument against WCW not being engaging from ‘99 on but fact of the matter is* that the dying days of WCW were still more popular (and memorable) than most non major wrestling events of the past 20 years.


By the time WCW was able to take a step back and realized “We are cannot compete with WWF again anytime in the near future . We just need to be the best WCW we can be.” after Vince Russo was gone in October 2000, it was basically too late.

*This is not Eric Bischoff posting under Kamala’s account. I do not subscribe to that tier of AFS.

 

[snuffbox]

And some of WWE's booking at the time could be just as bad, occasionally worse, and far from always compelling in 1999. It was me all along, Austin? As Sen Clay Davis would say, sheeeeeeeee-it.

I still think it's a testament to how people need to stand up for right things and not pander to those with status, title, privilege or overwrought ego. Bischoff, etc, not being able to separate friendships from (this) business was Reason #1 for the death of WCW. They had plenty of chances. Just could not do it.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1685108322486382592

Oh yes the storied legacy of the nWo B-team.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Serious response to a Brody joke post vol. 12,147

If Road Dogg stays in WCW, there is no way that he breaks the Armstrong Curse. Only way to break it is to leave WCW. He could have been an entertaining uncool guy in ECW maybe.


Ya know it’s kind of fitting that ‘98-‘99 WWF (and I guess maybe AEW?) is one of the only places where an entertainingly uncool guy can seem legitimately cool.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I still find it amusing that Jesse James was the only Armstrong who was flabby and yet he was a legit marine.

We could have tossed Cobra to the curb and had Craig Pittman feuding with Sgt JJ Armstrong.

TIL.... His wiki says he worked a match in 1986 before joining the marines. I wonder if he did that so he could check it off his bucket list if he decided to stay in the corp and/or a worst case scenario went down?

 

[Valeyard]

I said it somewhere before but if the world worked out to where they brought in Disco for the Rockabilly gimmick, which leads to the Outlaws, I think he and Road Dogg are a much better team and fit the era much better. I hate Disco but those guys would've been magic.

Road Dogg would've broken the Armstrong Curse in the sense Russo would probably use him the same way in WCW. Maybe he gets big over as a West Texas Redneck or something, or for being the only hardcore division worker worth anything. I dunno. This is definitely faint praise but he's a better version of Disco anyway.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Disco really should’ve left WCW in ‘97 and became Rockabilly. In this Sliding Doors scenario, he probably works for WWE or AEW today as a super influential road agent instead of being the most annoying ex wrestler pundit on the IWC.

 

[Valeyard]

He probably winds up where Road Dogg is now, basically. He'd be sidling up to Shawn and HHH from day one and probably wind up ostensibly a lifer who says stupid shit.

Road Dogg probably becomes the top face in TNA from day one and we get him and Jarrett over and over and over.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Billy Gunn was several inches taller than Disco and looked like Billy Gunn. I think Disco/Dog wind up in a worse place and Disco has horrible wrestling instincts creatively the way it sounds and would devolve into a comedy hardcore geek rather than rise to a level where he is in the mix w/ the Road Warriors and Funk/Jack.
--
Que up Dames TNA PPV report where he marked out for Glenn Gilberti's retransformation into a headline guy for a few weeks to counter my argument.

 

[Valeyard]

You're making it sound like 1997-8 LOD and Chainsaw Charlie were bigger deals than they were and that Mr. Ass wasn't already in between geek gigs. There was never anything serious about the Outlaws as it is, especially heel Outlaws.

I bet Billy would've been hanging around anyway in the low card. Even if he jumped he'd be back.

 

[snuffbox]

The New Age Outlaws were an upper midcard (and very over) act for well over a year during that time. The dumpster match at WM 14 was the third-most hyped match of that show. They were over for the same reasons South Park and Limp Bizkit, etc, were popular at the time. Some goofy ironic internet thing about Disco friggin Inferno wont change that.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Wikipedia entry kind of says that the Hogan/Nash retirement match at Road Wild ‘99 was something of a blowoff for the nWo but I have randomly watched a lot of Summer of Suck Nitros and Thunders on the Cock and I don’t think the nWo was invoked much at all.

Son of a gun. I just turned on another Summer of Suck edition of Thunder and one of the reasons why Kevin Nash turned against Hollywood Hogan in July '99 was because he felt betrayed that Hogan used him during the Fingerpoke of Doom. So I guess the build was, at least, tangentially nWo related.

Why did it take Big Kev almost seven months to realize that Hogan used him!? Also why is he the heel in this scenario!? GD WCW>

 

[BruiserBrody]

You're making it sound like 1997-8 LOD and Chainsaw Charlie were bigger deals than they were and that Mr. Ass wasn't already in between geek gigs. There was never anything serious about the Outlaws as it is, especially heel Outlaws.

The segment where the NAO left the LOD laid out tied was directly tied to top heels Shawn and Hunter showing they approved of these rapscallions.
The Funk/Cactus dumpster incident was played up for heavy heat and led to the NAO/DX headlining the next PPV together against Austin/Cactus/Funk/Hart.
---
Anybody arguing body guy Vince would see Gunn </= Disco is making a bad faith argument.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yeah. The ceiling for the Disco and Road Dogg NAO might be closer to Too Cool than the IRL NAO.

 

[Valeyard]

Oh I would never and haven't said Gunn was a bad choice, I just think Road Dogg and Disco would be a better team. Total shithead heels with personalities that would fit. That said I think that combination would work as well as the Outlaws did early on, maybe better, in terms of overall entertainment. I'd want to see them get destroyed more, and believe that they could be. Gunn is the better choice overall, but it took him longer and a face turn to find a groove for me.

That LOD segment really didn't amount to anything. It killed LOD off and should've been the introduction of the Outlaws into DX but they didn't pull the trigger. It came off like they were henchmen to the main eventer instead of an entity, ultimately. The two months between that segment and No Way Out (which Savio also main evented and he wasn't exactly an upper card guy) where no real interaction happened made the rub, such as it was, kinda pointless. Which is unfortunate because I think Shawn could've benefitted from them. Outlaws and Savio should've been DX, man.

And I saw Foley's run from September to April as a definite drop down the card from where he was. Austin went down, he went to being a weird third-wheel in the Pillman/Goldust feud until that ended, then he got killed by Kane and put in a random feud with a team that hadn't gotten footing just yet. I'd say they had the fourth biggest match at Mania, if only because HHH/Owen was a big deal for me, but no matter how you look at it it was his second year in the tag title match, which wasn't glamourous. That run just saw him drop down the card pretty significantly.

 

[strummer]

Disco must have been close to jumping because they basically say so in the magazine in Spring 97 with having his silhouette in the Travolta pose. And Russo was still running the magazine then.

And I would say Foley has a pretty quiet 97 (other than Hunter feud) all around so much so that he sits in the stands at the Feb. 97 ppv because they had no real plans for him.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Disco must have been close to jumping because they basically say so in the magazine in Spring 97 with having his silhouette in the Travolta pose. And Russo was still running the magazine then.

And I would say Foley has a pretty quiet 97 (other than Hunter feud) all around so much so that he sits in the stands at the Feb. 97 ppv because they had no real plans for him.

They planned on Foley/Mero for Mania and Foley shit on it, which is how we got Bulldog/Owen vs Vader/Foley.
Supposedly the original plan for 98 Mania was a Foley/Funk death match, but I am not sure that was ever more than a frequent rumor or at best a canceled Russo plan.
--
I feel even the Apters talked about Disco talking to the WWF at the time.

 

[Valeyard]

If I remember right Foley pitched the Funk match (was going to be broadcast/taped from the ranch in Amarillo) and Vince nixed it. I get it. I don't think the audience was ready for that yet.

I'm no fan of either but Jarrett and Disco as the Outsiders in a stolen bWo style faction would've been pretty fun.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

I don't think Disco could've navigated the WWF locker room, given the stories told of him in WCW. He wasn't a bad guy or negative influence, but it's pretty clear he was kept around and used so prominently (heh) because he was drinking buddies with the right people. Throw him into the 1997/8 WWF locker room and he's likely viewed as a sniveling worm to Shawn and isn't likely to be pals with the right people (Taker, Austin).

That being said, a Disco/Venis midcard feud over the European belt would've been entertaining, and seeing him get destroyed by Kane or Taker would've been entertaining.

 

[Fall of Epic]

The Dumpster tag match was originally supposed to be a Barbed Wire Match but something about the PPV provider not wanting a bloodbath nixed that so we got a very toned down version in the dumpster match.

 

[Big Papa Paegan]

Which holds water, as ECW was repeatedly booted from PPV for their use of violent content until Vince vouched for them and Heyman promised to tone it down.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Episode 281: Sting's 1999 - 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad discuss and explore the turbulent year of 1999 in Sting's career. Sting starts the year and ends as champion, but the wild storyline ride in between is something Eric cringes to talk about. HENSON SHAVING - It’s time to say no to subscriptions and yes...

pca.st

TL;DR version:

 

[Valeyard]

While I'd be just as likely to listen to it, I wish he and Hervey had a podcast about television instead.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

No one needs to hear “I’m not just saying this. I shit you not. Scott Baio is a really great guy. He’s so misunderstood.”

 

[Valeyard]

That's way funnier, though. You get them rewatching VH1 starfucker reality shows instead of wrestling and I'm much more inclined to listen. It would at least be something new and defending their legacy for those is really funny.