WWF New Generation Thread III

[Valeyard]

I know, and I wasn't against it or anything then but Faarooq/Ahmed was a real direction compared to the mess Mero (and HHH's) run was. But I also loved Mero and had his wife's poster on my wall.

 

[Fall of Epic]

Yeah, Farooq was the heavy favorite to win considering he just took out the champ and the IC title program had to be cancelled.

They actually tried to run a rematch at the Oct. 96 Buried Alive PPV but Ahmed kayfabe took him out beforehand so they subbed in Goldust. I suppose Simmons was injured but I imagine Mero would have retained either way? Don't know how you get from Farooq Asad to HHH.

 

[Valeyard]

At least have Ahmed cost Faarooq the match with Mero on ppv. Then they're even and it gets bigger than the belt and you can move on to the HHH/Mero stuff. I dunno. Faarooq got screwed all over. Would never have happened if he hadn't shaved his facial hair because Simmons is a goddamn star with facial hair.

 

[Fall of Epic]

Bringing him in with that ridiculous get up is one of those head scratching moments. Simmons coming in with long tights just killing MFers was all that was needed. You can even still go through with the Nation stuff.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

I know, and I wasn't against it or anything then but Faarooq/Ahmed was a real direction compared to the mess Mero (and HHH's) run was. But I also loved Mero and had his wife's poster on my wall.

If they knew that Mr. Perfect was going to ditch them then you have to assume they'd just do the obvious and give the belt to Faarooq.

 

[Valeyard]

They had that coming, honestly. That was, what, the third time he pulled something like that? I was super bummed at the time, and Hennig's jump was pretty painful. I wanted Perfect to get the belt and show the new generation a Perfectplex.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I guess Ivan Koloff told some tall tales in his shoots. One includes that the WWF contacted him in 1994 to beat Bret for the title.

I'm trying to figure out the grain of truth, but even Backlund isn't tied to Ivan other than being a challenger for a bit.
(Now I'm picturing Volkoff and Uncle Ivan as out of work commies hanging out with their Millionaire benefactor Teddy)

Ivan apparently also claimed the WWWF taped a match in Cherry Hill, NJ right after he won the belt where he lost via an unplanned phantom submission to Manuel Soto to use in case Ivan refused to drop the belt to Pedro. The match was then restarted and the champ went over.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Piggy backing on my SMW chatter in the other thread....
Dustin Rhodes is fired by WCW in April of 95 and doesn't work another match until he signed with the WWF in August. He seems like a prime candidate to come in for a big show or two over than down time. Maybe SMW could even "Steal a house" (as Corny likes to say) by bringing in Darsow for the match too hot for WCW?

His debut on the circuit is actually a loss to Razor. Despite eventually feuding on TV, Hall's reluctance to work the gimmick seems obvious as it looks like they only wrestled like 4 or 5 times between August and Razor getting suspended in Feb.

Goldust also doesn't work Bigelow for any shots other than their SSeries match. You'd think they'd have had Bigelow do a couple of shots beforehand to give them some time to work out a decent match.

 

[Valeyard]

I'd much rather Dustin (or Darsow, even) done a couple ECW shots. Dustin and Dreamer are kinda perfect partners at the time. Gimme some potential Demolition/Pitbulls matches, too.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I'd much rather Dustin (or Darsow, even) done a couple ECW shots. Dustin and Dreamer are kinda perfect partners at the time. Gimme some potential Demolition/Pitbulls matches, too.

Man, Darsow's wrestlingdata is mostly blank between getting fired by WCW and getting rehired by WCW. He has 2 international tours listed, including a Repo Man match vs NWA champ Dan Severn.

Show @ Kuantan (1996-03-05) - Results @ Wrestlingdata.com

Show @ Kuantan (1996-03-05) - Results

www.wrestlingdata.com

Lance Von Erich in 1996?! It would be hilarious/sad if he was cutting promos about fighting for all his dead cousins.

GLCW Blizzard Brawl 9 (2013-12-07) - Results @ Wrestlingdata.com

GLCW Blizzard Brawl 9 (2013-12-07) - Results

www.wrestlingdata.com

I could have seen Old Ass Demos vs the Washed (almost) Gangstas.
Should have booked the (We're not the) Godwins vs Demos instead.

Ope Nevermind.... Same promotion booked that match the prior 2 years

GLCW Blizzard Brawl 7 (2011-12-03) - Results @ Wrestlingdata.com

GLCW Blizzard Brawl 7 (2011-12-03) - Results

www.wrestlingdata.com

https://www.wrestlingdata.com/index.php?befehl=shows&show=208412

And the year before that they worked the Dream Team!

GLCW Blizzard Brawl 6 (2010-12-04) - Results @ Wrestlingdata.com

GLCW Blizzard Brawl 6 (2010-12-04) - Results

www.wrestlingdata.com

---
The only listed Ax/Smash teaming between SSeries 90 and 2007 is a 1993 match vs Public Enemy!

Universal Wrestling Alliance @ Woodbridge (1993-12-04) - Results @ Wrestlingdata.com

Universal Wrestling Alliance @ Woodbridge (1993-12-04) - Results

www.wrestlingdata.com

 

[Valeyard]

Darsow should have been the Scott Norton of the bWo

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

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An obvious sign of the decline is Ted DiBiase’s outfit being downgraded to a bedazzled wind suit that looked like something out of a Richard Simmons loungewear collection.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

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The New Gen advertising campaign was awful. It reminds me of bad Nickelodeon comedy. Not just sub All That level but probably sub Roundhouse.

 

[BruiserBrody]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1802794174514626865

Doesn't seem very babyfaceish. Poor Howard getting dumped off the stretcher as a "rib"

--
I wonder how the McMahon heel turn on a national scale would go in 1993?

We'd need a catalyst for heel Vince. Maybe Undertaker gets too aggressive post Survivor Series while doing a promo with Vince regarding getting a shot at Yoko. "Vince, we know you are the puppet master behind Jack Tunney...." When Vince tries to pull away the mic with an eyeroll, Taker grabs him aggressively.... setting up Vince's slow turn...?

If they go all in with Evil Vince by Rumble 94, he can align with Yoko/Corny for whatever reason, being the man behind Kabuki and Tenryu coming in to take out Luger or at least being accused of green lighting Corny's plan.

Vince can also be the susceptive mastermind of the 10 man gang attack on Taker at the Rumble.

Post Rumble, Vince can support HBK's false claim to the IC title.

His angst with Luger can continue all the way to the Summer where he is the Devil's Advocate to turn Tatanka on his friend Luger.

You can even have Vince bring back a reformed "Undertaker" in summer as Jim Ross calls BS. Vince belittles anyone who questions his superstar not being the real McCoy.

I'm not sure when to go from heel Vince to full blown Mr McMahon and the Corporation. He kind of supplants the Million Dollar Corp. in my scenario.

 

[HarleyQuinn]

I wonder how the McMahon heel turn on a national scale would go in 1993?

His best bet would've been doing what he did when he went Mr. McMahon in 1997/1998 by riding guys who were really good on the mic (and could go a bit in the ring). The Rock & Dude Love were able to hold their own on the mic with Austin/McMahon and never felt like a jabroni so both gave Austin a legitimate foe with McMahon just getting to play puppet master.

Heel Razor or Shawn especially would've really worked. I think it'd have been interesting if he yoinked Diesel from Shawn in 1994/1995 and used him as the "muscle" while he pulled the strings.

One option, if he managed to get healthy, could've been somebody like Mr. Perfect. Fans would've brought him in the ring, had enough mic skills to be opposite guys like a Bret or Undertaker or Luger, while kind of fitting that puppet who doesn't know he's being used by McMahon.

The trick is having a heel who's great enough, like Rock, who could eventually turn face against McMahon's heelishness and get the big rub from that too.

 

[Valeyard]

I don't see it working at all. There's nothing happening in that era that would benefit anyone, and if anything it could be super corny considering the product.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Vince McMahon turning heel without Steve Austin around is basically just Eric Bischoff. It could be effective but I don’t see it triggering a seismic shift in the industry like it did IRL.

 

[BruiserBrody]

I'm kind of thinking of this like Vince is Forrest Gump and his heel run is part of a tweaked main event scene.
- Early 94 he's focused on Taker and Yoko. He gets rid of Taker at the Rumble and sticks with Yoko up to Mania, while also having Diesel and Shawn in tow as the IC program. Yoko loses the belt and Vince "fires" him to send him to the fat farm or whatever.
Vince brings in Faker Taker for the summer. This draws the real Taker back and after Summerslam Vince brings back Yoko to finish the Taker feud.
Diesel gets the title shot at KOTR via the Vince connection.
When Diesel splits from Shawn, he also splits from Vince, giving him some extra face oomph. Vince builds up Heel Shawn as his ideal champ, setting up WM.
After Shawn fails at Mania, Vince is enamored by Sid and orchestrates Sid's turn on HBK the next night.
And so on....

 

[Valeyard]

But why is he doing this, though? The Attitude Era had a motivation and a reason for the character to be created.

 

[BruiserBrody]

But why is he doing this, though? The Attitude Era had a motivation and a reason for the character to be created.

Yeah, that's why I said in my first post we'd need a catalyst.

I was just spitballin' after seeing some more McMemphis clips.

 

[Valeyard]

It's more going from 100% squeaky clean annoying babyface announcer to shitty slimy heel during that time. If I'm, like, Jim Cornette, I don't trust him at all.

Vince should've become a heel manager instead of an announcer, though. Like I can see him taking Slick's career.

 

[BruiserBrody]

Vince trying to match the Wisemen doing promos in 1979 instead of emulating Howard Cosell amuses me.

 

[Valeyard]

After the Grand Wizard dies, he turns and becomes the new heel managing star going into the new era.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

If Vince turns during New Generation era, I feel like ceiling is marginally less annoying version of early 2010s Michael Cole.

 

[BruiserBrody]

After the Grand Wizard dies, he turns and becomes the new heel managing star going into the new era.

Vince almost suffers from the "being too big" issue with being a manager. This would parlay into his dream of being a wrestler sooner though. Vince oozing all over Superstar Graham in his bombastic way would probably be amazing/humorous.
Not sure how he fares with Heenan and Jimmy Hart coming in. Vince wasn't afraid to be a ham though.

 

[BruiserBrody]

If Vince turns during New Generation era, I feel like ceiling is marginally less annoying version of early 2010s Michael Cole.

Yeah, I've kind of argued before that the New Gen stuff hits different due to the atmosphere of the WWF. There was still a ton of lame shit during Austin's era, but he and the Rock had an edge, and DX was crazy, and Sable was a sensation.... but after that it is kind of a lot of goofy crap.

Even Kane/Taker done the same in 1995 (we'll say Kane comes in instead of Yankem) as in 97-99 probably comes across far more cartoonish instead of having an edge to it overall.

 

[Valeyard]

Foley coming in a year earlier would've been fun. He totally changes the game. Everyone likes him, he always busts his ass, he can make the lamest shit entertaining, he doesn't have too much of an ego. Mankind/Taker a year earlier is good for business, and probably great for Taker since he can start to show his actual ability more.

 

[Cackling Co Pilot Kamala]

Yeah, I've kind of argued before that the New Gen stuff hits different due to the atmosphere of the WWF. There was still a ton of lame shit during Austin's era, but he and the Rock had an edge, and DX was crazy, and Sable was a sensation.... but after that it is kind of a lot of goofy crap.

Even Kane/Taker done the same in 1995 (we'll say Kane comes in instead of Yankem) as in 97-99 probably comes across far more cartoonish instead of having an edge to it overall.

You need the Montreal Screwjob to be the catalyst for Vince McMahon as a heel character.

He's such a natural heel (as we now know...) that it probably would've worked regardless had they ever decided to go that route but I don't think he becomes one of the GOAT WWE villains without stabbing Bret in the back IRL.

That brings to mind maybe a question for the Attitude Era thread. If the Montreal Screwjob never happens, how does it alter 1998 WWF?

 

[BruiserBrody]

As long as Tyson comes and and Austin interrupts the segment, nothing changes.

Vince and Austin had established an issue in September.

Had they done Bret's wishes and let him drop it to Shamrock, who would then lose it to Shawn at IYH: DX or something, then the Mr McMahon twist is less dramatic, but the issue was confused in Dec yet anyway as Sarge was against DX, but as a babyface office stooge. Vince could just as easily back Rocky vs Austin in the IC title angle, and still rage against DX's antics I guess.

Thinking about it right now, it is a bit silly McMahon was supposed to be mad at Austin for not being corporate enough while Shawn is on TV waving his dick and pilled to the gills as the World champ. Bret actually fits a corporate champ mold nicely.

 

[Valeyard]

Vince is only a supervillain because of Montreal. The Tyson shit worked as well as it did because he was the piece of shit owner having his moment ruined by the coolest guy on the roster, and without Montreal, Vince's status as owner isn't half as important. He plays that segment like shitty Vince announcer Vince as it was.

Vince has no weight behind him without Montreal.