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AEW in Fall 2022- Spreading lies and bullshit to the media.

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Agganis only fits about 5,000 (maybe closer to 4k with the stage setup) so while not great, it's not quite as horrible as it sounds. It's still p. bad considering that the first two Dynamites were near sell outs within a few days of tickets going on sale.

I think it goes to show you that that CM Punk and to, a lesser but still significant extent, The Elite are the acts that put butts in seat for AEW.

I know it's going to sound weird and dumb but Bryan Danielson isn't the draw that Daniel Bryan was, Chris Jericho is a mostly considered to be a complete joke by casual fans and everyone else is a non factor.


I wonder though if it's just general fatigue towards people going to events in general and not just an AEW thing in general. Newness of live events returning after pandemic has worn off and reality of weird economic state we're in is really setting in. Now WrestleMania and Survivor Series ticket sales were an enormous success BUT ticket sales for non major WWE events has been a mixed bag with a lot of house shows being canceled due to poor sales.
 
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geniusMoment

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Dave did a big piece on the slow moving tickets. Market is probably the least of it (they haven't ran Cincy in a year and are on pace to do half of last year's ticket sales). It's the booking/presentation. Even Seattle doesn't have great numbers for the first ever show.


Below are some thoughts from Dave:


Dave : When you watch the show now, the audience does react more like a WWE audience than they did a year ago when they first came off the pandemic and in the first year. There is a change.

Gonzales : Is this surprising though considering they brought over WWE guys?

Dave : Yeah, that’s kind of what people have been saying in the sense that they went from their own identity to being guys that WWE didn’t want. You keep bringing in these WWE hotshot guys for a rating and it’s almost like TNA was, if you remember.

I kept thinking some reminds me of TNA, like you bringing this person in, they get this giant pop in the building no matter what and so you think they are bigger stars than (your own) stars. So then (in TNA) AJ was never got their builds because there was always Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner, Booker T, or whoever.

And I think, and there’s definitely exceptions to this like Moxley and Jericho, but sometimes when you watch (the show) you get the feeling that some of these WWE guys, and when you look at what’s happened in the last few weeks, you get the sense that some of these guys would rather be in WWE.

Before, the mentality was that people thought ‘everybody wanted to be in AEW’, it was the cool thing. Some of the WWE guys didn’t want to be in AEW, but pretty much everyone, with very few exceptions, called and inquired. They had interest, even if it was to build up their own pay in WWE negotiations.

So then (in AEW), it got to where some of these guys didn’t want to be there and then there was the implosion between Punk and the Young Bucks.

I felt this a little bit of this in May, that was when I first started feeling it, but there was no numbers to back this up and they were still drawing good. And then, this round of ticket sales was the one where it was like, ‘OK, it’s a lot low’. It’s a story and I don’t know the answer.

The most obvious answer is someone’s got to get hot, perhaps push new guys to the moon who are not retreads, and maybe don’t bring in WWE people? I don’t know if that’s the answer.

I do think the more WWE people you bring in, the more WWE fans you bring in - and that should be a great thing, but maybe that original audience didn’t want those ex-WWE guys other than Moxley and Jericho. Don’t get me wrong, there’s probably others (they wanted as well).

There are guys there from WWE who are very happy in AEW and you can tell by their work, but the ones that aren’t. It is a bad look.
 

geniusMoment

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I think the main point is AEW needs to figure out who they are. And if ROH isn't going to be run as a different company they need to get rid of tons of people, and all those belts. They have way too many belts. I don't even know who some of their champions are and I watch most of the shows.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Yeah, sadly, I think most of my hope for a successful ROH reboot has eroded. If the main brand attendance is cratering, I see no way that a niche/specialty brand is going to do well unless they downscale it to small venues and then you have to worry about roster cuts and alienating the hardcores.

I appreciate Tony Khan wanting to do an invasion that doesn't suck but current financial and wrestling landscape have kind of made it impossible.
 

Valeyard

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Also a key element to an invasion angle working is people actually caring. ROH was never a mainstream promotion and even among the intended audience it hasn't meant anything in like ten years. Add in that barely if any actual ROH talent has worked AEW for their own titles let alone appear, it's a total clusterfuck. One of those big things that keeps me from really considering Tony Khan a good booker.
 

cobainwasmurdered

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wwe is struggling with ticket sales too and the box office has been terrible, this isn't some unique AEW problem. Gas prices just shot up like 50 cents here and are spiraling every day. Why the fuck am I going to spend money on a wrestling ticket?

A lot of the other shit Dave is saying sounds extremely overblown at best. Who are these WWE guys who seem like they don't want to be there? The crowds aren't appreciably more "WWE". If they were they'd be sitting on their hands all night which they clearly aren't. They also aren't bringing WWE guys in to "hotshot" things. They've been programming them into key angles and the ratings have shown that.

The ROH stuff is garbage.


I notice complaints about AEW and TK's booking a month or two after every PPV and then the next PPV happens and everyone realizes "oh there actually was a direction" and it starts over.
 

cobainwasmurdered

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Yeah, sadly, I think most of my hope for a successful ROH reboot has eroded. If the main brand attendance is cratering, I see no way that a niche/specialty brand is going to do well unless they downscale it to small venues and then you have to worry about roster cuts and alienating the hardcores.

I appreciate Tony Khan wanting to do an invasion that doesn't suck but current financial and wrestling landscape have kind of made it impossible.
He hasn't been trying to do an invasion angle at all. It's literally just being treated as part of the regular company. There's no interest or intrigue. It's just another bunch of belts that occasionally get a show.
 

Big Beard Booty Daddy

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He hasn't been trying to do an invasion angle at all. It's literally just being treated as part of the regular company. There's no interest or intrigue. It's just another bunch of belts that occasionally get a show.

I was going to say this, too. He's keeping the belts on TV to keep the wrestlers in the forefront of the fan's minds so when (if) they get a TV deal, it won't be a bunch of no names on the show. But there's no invasion angle at all. I'm not sure where people are getting this. Samoa Joe (ROH TV Champion) is teaming with Wardlow (AEW TNT Champion). If there was an invasion, they'd be feuding.

Regarding the WWE crowds, what Dave means by that, as he explained, the crowds that sit there quiet until a big name comes out. They'll pop for the entrances, a big spot, then the finish. AEW crowds are more keen to be loud during the entire matches. So when it's said that they're in front of a WWE crowd, it's more how they act towards matches. Much like the Philly crowd last week. Grand Slam was more an AEW crowd in that respect.
 

geniusMoment

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I don't know if AEW was ever going to keep crowds as hot as they were that first year. No matter who they brought in or didn't. The only promotion with crowds that hot would be ECW. And that was on a much smaller scale so it was easier to have that heat all show.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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He hasn't been trying to do an invasion angle at all. It's literally just being treated as part of the regular company. There's no interest or intrigue. It's just another bunch of belts that occasionally get a show.
Well, yeah, that's part of the problem. They just got integrated into the roster as if everyone knew who they were and ROH wasn't drawing crowds in the hundreds for the last few years.
 

Big Beard Booty Daddy

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I don't know if AEW was ever going to keep crowds as hot as they were that first year. No matter who they brought in or didn't. The only promotion with crowds that hot would be ECW. And that was on a much smaller scale so it was easier to have that heat all show.

That's really hard to do, unless it's a new area. They've been in the same locations so much since getting back on the road that the crowds just can't stay that hot.
 

Valeyard

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When I say invasion I just mean it in the sense that their titles and the like are on the show and supposed to matter as much as AEW's, or at least be credible to people at this point. What good is it? No one who has carried an ROH belt since the buyout has been an ROH talent and will not be a regular player on any future ROH TV unless a new deal is incredible. Frankly I'm not convinced he didn't buy it just so he could have the Briscoes and that fell through hard.

It's an albatross that works under Pure rules.
 

Valeyard

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Not selling out in Seattle does surprise me a little bit. I'm blaming Washington though.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Yeah, you can't even rely on using ROH's library as HBOMax filler anymore given the Discovery merger and how much content has been dumped.


Maybe best hope for ROH is to be a touring only brand (running in under 2k seat venues) that has a webseries and a few PPVs a year where they can give reps to some of the underneath guys that aren't getting Dynamite and Rampage shine.
 

Valeyard

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The only problem with that is whether TK decides he still wants to book, which would be bad. He'd lose interest and be rightfully more interested in the main shows. If it's in its own universe (except for a title match or two at an actual AEW ppv just for exposure's sake) and in smaller venues that aren't Dailey's, it might work, but TK is not the guy to book that sort of show at the same time as AEW proper.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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See this is another one of those little things that drives casual fans away. AEW needs to rein in their guys better. Could you ever see two WWE wrestlers going at it like this on Twitter? If this isn't leading to a MJF/Kingston match in the near future, it just makes everyone look petulant.
 

Valeyard

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If anything has been established it's that TK can't really police his own people unless something unavoidable happens.
 

cobainwasmurdered

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See this is another one of those little things that drives casual fans away. AEW needs to rein in their guys better. Could you ever see two WWE wrestlers going at it like this on Twitter? If this isn't leading to a MJF/Kingston match in the near future, it just makes everyone look petulant.
...Are you seriously getting worked by this?

and WWE has used fake twitter fights numerous times to build angles. The women especially do it constantly.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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We've already seen the results of worst case scenario of top AEW talents hating each other IRL but I feel like MJF and Kingston IRL backstage drama would be #2.

...Are you seriously getting worked by this?

and WWE has used fake twitter fights numerous times to build angles. The women especially do it constantly.
Apparently!
 

geniusMoment

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90% of the time I hate the social media "feuds". The second people start working a program on TV virtually everyone thinks the social media stuff was all BS. So, what is the point of it?

Quit trying to be too cute, and fool people with worked shoots. Just book solid wrestling angles that make sense and build week to week. Feature your key players in meaningful programs almost every week (if you can't do that because you have too many key players it means some need to go). Do some of the cool stuff you said at the start like filming in unique locations. Spend the money you save on people you cut on stuff like badass entrance music for the people you keep. Update the the show openings. Use legit music for the openings that will give your show a cool feel. Hire a creative firm to create a modern entrance setup. Try and find something unique that makes your shows stand out. The current setup is starting to feel old.

There are tons of things AEW could do to freshen shit up.
 

Valeyard

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Social media stuff can be entertaining. Like I dare you not to be entertained or interested after reading what Bayley or Becky writes. But they aren't trying to do anything other than extra character work that they just aren't able to do on TV.

MJF gets stupid mic time where he just nukes everyone brilliantly and it feels very lame when he tries to do anything off TV, storyline-wise (let him insult every kid ever born though). What makes it lamer is that everyone now knows Kingston got suspended because Sammy called him fat and omg thin ice bro. I've got real problems with MJF's booking as it is without that kind of thing happening even if they can add it to the story.

Long game better be Kingston getting the title in the spring though.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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I genuinely believe that MJF Vs Eddie Kingston could be the 21st century Flair/Dusty and part of my hesitancy toward this dumb social media trash talk is its going to push the wrong buttons for someone who is as easily agitated as Kingston.
 

909

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Now that I'm home and can type, I gotta point out about these bad ticket sales...that the assumption of every AEW fan is that MJF will soon win the world title and nobody's buying tickets to shows that it seems will feature him as champion (he will at least be on top of the card regardless).
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Aren't all these tickets for shows before Full Gear? I don't think anyone assumes MJF will win the title before then. Unless you're saying that people aren't buying tickets for these shows cause they know Mox is a lame duck champion.
 

909

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Aren't all these tickets for shows before Full Gear? I don't think anyone assumes MJF will win the title before then. Unless you're saying that people aren't buying tickets for these shows cause they know Mox is a lame duck champion.
MJF is the one going around treating the casino chip like it’s MITB. He’s saying every week he might use it and nobody’s buying tickets, maybe I’m reading too much into it but his storyline is the most present on TV and it doesn’t manifest in dollars.
 

Cackling Co Pilot Kamala

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Optically speaking, after the biggest scandal in your company's history which ripped your four biggest stars off of programming, it doesn't seem wise to continue a hard push to the dude who nearly walked out after your 2nd to last PPV.
 

Valeyard

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Literally nothing about the way MJF has been booked has felt natural and it's all been pretty un-AEW. The whole story has been a foregone conclusion since he walked out in the most artifical way you can book it. That his story hasn't been set off course despite pretty much the entire top of the card in major flux right now just means there's no reason to care until he wins, and by the time he does the biggest opponents for him will either be gone or tainted.
 
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